The Orz may be *manifestations* of a single super-being, if Orzese is interpreted correctly, but nonetheless the Orz as they appear to us are a race of biological individuals (little fish-guys in robot suits), and that initial impression, which is all we know for absolutely certain, is what should go here. Speculation on the true, essential nature of the Orz should go in their own article.
This article is great
It also happens to be the biggest one on the site right now (Special:Longpages). I find myself wondering if it should be broken up into smaller pieces, such as a separate article on the 2085 slave revolt, for instance. It's difficult because there is so much to say, but if the people who have been working on it continue to do as good a job, I'm not worried at all. :) Mmrnmhrm 17:33, 19 Oct 2004 (CEST)
"This may be why the Androsynth after the Emigration consciously changed the Androsynth insignia from a black inverted triangle to a pink one, imitating the 20th-century symbol of homosexual liberation."
Is the pink triangle symbol actually in the game? I'm curious because an inverted pink triangle was also a symbol used by Nazis to denote homosexual inmates of concentration camps.--saint242 17:17, 26 Nov 2004 (CET)
There's more to the triangles.
I can't recall seeing any reference to black or pink triangles in the game, and grepping through the dialogs and the manuals turns up nothing. Can anyone tell me where the reference came from?
I also don't see what changing from a black to a pink triangle has to do with sexual liberation. I can't say I'm an expert on the subject, but from what I've read (pink and black), the pink triangle has been adopted as a symbol of homosexual pride, while the black triable has been specifically a symbol for the lesbian en feminist cause. They both originate from nazi insignia. -- SvdB 00:13, 27 Nov 2004 (CET)
About the triangles.
Hi all, I was recently browsing through here when I saw this topic. Just to answer your questions, if you check the very small Androsynth crew picture (from melee), you’ll notice they have small, pink triangular patches/badges on their chests.
In case you’re wondering, I was the person who originally found out about the whole “homosexual” Androsynth thing. The subject itself came up during a discussion at the PNF forums last year, and I had asked Paul Reiche & Fred Ford to confirm this via email. Paul answered that the pink triangles were, indeed, a small way of showing appreciation to his gay friends.
I’d show you the actual letter he sent back to me, but unfortunately the only place I know where a copy of the letter itself actually is (It's no longer in my inbox), is posted on the PNF discussion forum. The PNF board at the moment is experiencing errors, and I can’t recover the letter until Chad fixes the problem.
Hope this helps. Moronic Maria 04:12, 27 Nov 2004 (CET)
Also, the black triangles only refer to the fact that the manual art for pre-Exodus Androsynth shows them to be wearing dark-colored triangles on their uniforms. They apparently became pink triangles after the Exodus. This is also the source for the swooshed hair (which disappears in the Melee graphic) and the pale, Caucasian skin (which becomes dark tanned skin in the Melee graphic), all apparently changes betweeen pre- and post-Exodus 'Synth. -Art
I'm confused. Whatever details about this peice of trivia were apparently removed in the last edit, any paticular reason for this (not that I mind, just wondering)? - (Iamnotloggedin)
The search functionality still works. The thread is http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~starcontrol/board/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1077749345
PR3 has been pretty explicit about what happened to the Androsynth. This should be incorporated in the article.
- <Fwiffo> In regards to the Androsynth: They were snagged by the entity who/which projected its fingers into our dimension (which looked to us as the Orz.)
- SvdB 18:54, 4 May 2005 (CEST)
- It *is* in the article. It's not that explicit, given that it doesn't say what exactly "snagged" means, nor why the entity "snagged" them, nor say much about what the entity is. It does prove that two things are true, which is that the Orz really are manifestations of a singular entity, and that the Orz really are responsible for the Androsynth's disappearance, but doesn't say much beyond that.
I guess I should have also made a comment here when I removed this bit. I did put a comment over on Talk:Influences and References. So here goes again, I haven't been able to verify this statement. All the Greek dictionaries I look in list ouranos or aither as the word for sky. I'll gladly eat my words and admit I'm wrong if you can provide a reference for this translation. Until then, I'm going to be bold and remove it since I've done quite a bit of looking around and researching on my own in order to verify this, but I might have missed the references you have - hence the question. --Fyzixfighter 11:10, 2 Nov 2005 (CET)
Honestly, there's something I've always felt Ultronomicon has lacked: there are pictures on Wikipedia for the Androsynth, Mmrnmhrm, and Chenjesu that really show a lot more than just their combat looks. wikipedia:Androsynth wikipedia:Mmrnmhrm wikipedia:Chenjesu Should we "swipe" these and put them up here? They look quite canonical to their appearance.
- I believe those images are taken from the SC2 manual, so there is a question of copyright. Anyone know who holds the actual copyrights to the manuals? TFB or whoever-owns-what-was-once-Accolade? --Fyzixfighter 08:12, 10 April 2007 (CEST)
- They do look like images from the SC2 manual. I don't know about the copyrights, but Wikipedia claims fair use. Now the Ultronomicon is hosted in the Netherlands, so I suspect Dutch law applies, which does not know "fair use", but does have "quotation rights". I don't know whether this applies here. — SvdB 17:42, 19 April 2007 (CEST)
Too much speculation
This article has too much of what is really just fan speculation and editorializing. There is far too much detail on things that are only briefly described in the manual, such as McBride's rise or the Androsynth slavery and lack of rights - a lot of it is just non-canon speculation and unnecessary editorializing on subjects like their uniforms and equipment. Some of it is just completely made up, like the event that triggered the rebellion ("the Eurasian Region of the United Nations used several Androsynth as disposable guinea pigs in a highly dangerous physics experiment that left many maimed or killed." - that's nowhere in the manual). The Ultronomicon should contain canon information, not fan-made embellishment. Speculation should only included when it's about a popular topic of discussion, such as the Androsynth disappearance, and should be explicitly mentioned as speculation. This article needs a lot trimmed out. 22.214.171.124 05:46, 22 June 2007 (CEST)
- While a some of what you've noted is fanfic (I think this page at one time even had a pseudo-quote from a fan invented book written post-SC2), some of that material you mention is canon - such as the Eurasian comment, which is found in the SC1 manual. Its inclusion here is likely an attempt to combine the SC1 and SC2 stories into a coherent fashion. Also McBride's rise and the Androsynth slavery is a significant portion both in the history of the Androsynth and explaining who they are (or were) and so should be included - the SC2 manual gives more than a few pages to the topic. Some of the other information, such as the limited genetic diversity and the meaning of the symbol on their uniform, can be found from some of the discussions with TFB, so I'd check those sources also. That being said, I think you are correct that there is a good deal of fan-made embellishment that strays too far into the unknown. So I'd recommend you go ahead and make trims, but don't make it so dry that it's only quotes from canon and, as you trim, see if you can understand what the fan was trying to explain with the fanfic, and include the initial fact without the supposition. Good luck and thanks in advance for the assistance. Cheers. --Fyzixfighter 08:47, 22 June 2007 (CEST)
Spathi and Androsynth
Could someone please show me where in the canon is "They even establishing uneasy but peaceful interstellar relations with their Spathi neighbors, much to the Spathi's surprise." from? I can't find any mention in any manual or in the RPRG, nor in the Spathi dialogue. Valaggar 09:42, 5 February 2008 (CET)
- I believe it's taken from the line "As you know, Androsynth space borders our own, and while we never really liked the Androsynth it seemed that they weren't out to kill us as everyone else seems to be." It's found in the dialog with the spathi home (the safe ones), not the spathi eluder captains. --Fyzixfighter 09:48, 5 February 2008 (CET)
- Also, why I applaud your effort to excise the fanfic and speculation, and I don't mind reinserting some of the bits which I think are canon and necessary, a lot of the replacement text you put in seems almost directly lifted from the SC2 manual with only minor variations, something which I think we should avoid. I know that can be somewhat hard to avoid given that the manual is our only source for a lot of this story, but I cringe at appearance of plagiarism. For that reason, as I'm reviewing the recent edits (though not tonight as it's already 2am where I'm at), I may reinsert some of the original text - hopefully without the fanfic and speculation. While I was bothered by the fanfic of the removed text, I did admire its originality when it came to the presentation of the canon material. --Fyzixfighter 10:02, 5 February 2008 (CET)
- Indeed, it pained me as well that I had to resort to that. I have also been trying to keep as much of the original wording as possible, but I had to wade through huge blocks of text; lots of things slipped through as a result.
- Regarding Spathi-Androsynth relations: Still, it's not necessary that Spathi-Androsynth relations had begun before the War. It must be changed, but I'd leave it for another day — I'd put that bit of information in a "Relations with other races" section. Valaggar 20:08, 5 February 2008 (CET)
- I think you make a good point about the uncertainty of the timing regarding the Spathi-Androsynth relationship - was it before or after they became thralls? I had similar thoughts after finding the source for that statement. The "Relations with..." section would be an appropriate place for something like this, and how a lot of the ambiguous stuff like this is handled on other race pages. One of these days I really need to go through all the race pages and come up with some standardized format (or at at least a semblance of such). --Fyzixfighter 21:43, 5 February 2008 (CET)