Ultronomicon - User contributions [en]

Dreadnought

2008-06-12T10:49:12Z

75.45.212.48: /* Tenuous Against */

__NOTOC__
<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 align="right">
<tr><td>[[Image:Star_control_i_ur-quan_dreadnought_databank.png|thumb|225px|Starship Databank Entry]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>{{UrQuanNav}}</td></tr>
</table>

The [[Ur-Quan Kzer-Za]] '''Dreadnought''' is the mainstay of the [[Hierarchy]] fleets. A fully-crewed Dreadnought can crush most opponents with ease. While it is a powerful battleship in melee combat, the Dreadnought is also designed to be a Planetary Siege Unit, able to single-handedly subdue an entire planet. Even from orbit, its fusion weapons are more than capable of destroying large structures on and beneath a planet's surface. The massive girth of the vessel is reinforced with the special ''Eterna-tech'' metal unique to Ur-Quan technology. The only other ships as massive as the Dreadnought are the [[Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah|Kohr-Ah]] [[Marauder]] and [[The Flagship]]. In the unlikely chance that it is disabled, the vessel has been designed to self-destruct to prevent other species from reverse-engineering Ur-Quan technology. Interestingly, a Dreadnought is known to have only one [[Ur-Quan]] on board, because of their intense territoriality. The remaining 41 crew members are believed to be either robots or [[battle thralls]] forced to work on board the Dreadnought.

==Navigation==
The Dreadnought is not a fast or nimble ship. It doesn't have to be. One of these ships — never mind an entire fleet of them — can lumber along and expect to defeat almost any opponent. The strength of the Dreadnought lies in its enormous firepower and considerable crew size.

==Armament==

===Primary===
The Dreadnought's fusion cannon (also named "fusion blaster", similar to the [[Flagship]] [[Fusion Blaster (module)|module]]) can destroy small ships in one or two hits. The only drawbacks to this weapon are the Dreadnought's never-quite-fast-enough turn rate and the significant amount of energy required to employ it. The second factor is mostly negligible given the Dreadnought's high energy recharge rate. So powerful is this attack that defensive systems like the [[Chmmr]] [[Avatar]]'s Zap-Sat array are useless against it, although a skilled pilot may make use of the [[Avatar]]'s tractor beam to pull it into a swift demise at the force of its heavy x-ray laser; also, a fully charged [[Melnorme]] [[Trader]] Energy Bolt will win in a head-on collision.

===Secondary===
The Ur-Quan captain can also send out small, one-man fighter ships armed with lasers to harass the enemy. Each fighter has only a limited supply of life support and fuel and must return to the Dreadnought after its brief sortie. These fighters are of little use against ships equipped with auto targeting weapons (such as the [[Earthling]] [[Cruiser]]) but a sufficient swarm of them can team up to puncture an enemy hull in seconds.

==Tactical Overview==
"Finesse" is not a word that exists in a Dreadnought captain's vocabulary. Victory is nominally achieved through the application of superior firepower in large amounts. The relatively high firing rate on the main cannon facilitates this strategy quite nicely, but the slower-than-optimal turning rate can complicate things. Against slow ships, fighters can finish the fight before it starts, but against fast ships they're mostly useless. In fact, fighters can make a battle easier for the opponent by providing a way to sap crew members without getting too close to the main ship.

===Strong Against===
[[Umgah]] [[Drone]]: The incredibly short range, slow speed and poor turning of the Drone leaves it a sitting duck for fusion blasts - which, incidentally, can pierce the antimatter cone.

[[Arilou]] [[Skiff]]: The Skiff is capable, with enough skill on the part of the pilot, of dodging the Ur-Quan's Fusion shots and doing some damage but fighters can decimate Arilou, as the laser is always aiming towards the Dreadnought. This match-up will take a while, but the Dreadnought is the most likely victor.

===Tenuous Against===
[[Earthling]] [[Cruiser]]: The Cruiser's point-defense lasers render the Dreadnought's fighters completely useless, and its guided missiles allow it to whittle away at the Dreadnought's crew with alarming speed. Up close, however, the Dreadnought can tear through an enemy Cruiser in seconds. The Dreadnought's best bet is to close in on the Cruiser before it can gain momentum. Barring gravity whips, the Dreadnought is strictly faster than the Cruiser, so closing in should not be a problem.

[[Chmmr]] [[Avatar]]: The Dreadnought can theoretically circle around the Avatar and shoot it with its fusion bolt. However, once the Avatar pulls the Dreadnought into the scope of its laser, the match belongs to the Avatar.

[[Chenjesu]] [[Broodhome]]: The Broodhome can launch DOGIs to distract the Ur-Quan and then defeat it with its crystal weapon. However, once the Dreadnought gets in range, or once enough fighters make it to the Broodhome, the Dreadnought ultimately becomes the victor.

===Weak Against===

{{ShipBox|image=Dreadnought_icon.png|link=dreadn|race=[[Ur-Quan Kzer-Za|Ur-Quan]]|crew=42|value=30|batt=42|regen=0.14|primary=Fusion Cannon|prim-rate=6|prim-cost=6|secondary=Launch Fighters|sec-rate=9|sec-cost=8|speed=30|turn=0.2|accel=0.86|mass=10}}

[[Category:Kzer-Za]]

Talk:Dreadnought

2008-06-12T10:40:36Z

75.45.212.48: /* Melnorme Trader Bolt */

"Ur-Quan fighter pilots are skilled in Gravity Whip maneuvers and use this to augment their already impressive speed." Not that I've noticed- Whenever I play they regularly crash into the planet and bounce off. It is possible that gravity accellerates them slightly (I haven't observed much of a change in speed) but they most certainly don't attempt gravity whips consciously like an Orz [[Space Marine]]. -[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 22:22, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Huh? ==

I agree -- the assertion is completely false. I can't find anything to back this up in the SC2 game manual, so I'm chucking it.
[[User:Nic|Nic]] 22:35, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Been a while ==

I haven't played in eight years. I suppose my memory is fallible. Fair enough. [[User:Mmrnmhrm|Mmrnmhrm]] 08:13, 10 Oct 2004 (CEST)

==Melnorme Trader Bolt==
I've tested the rumour about the trader bolt and fusion blast. Bosth the fully charged bolt and the fusion blast are destroyed.

:No, the fully charged trader blast is stronger. By comparison, the Trader bolt deals 16 damage, but the Ur-Quan fusion bolt deals 6 damage. I'm not sure how much health the Trader bolts have, but the Fusion bolt has six health (or maybe it's 8 health), and I would guess that the Trader bolt has 16 health fully charged, give or take a few. --Jaychant

:EDIT:I tested it, and the fusion bolt was destroyed by the Trader bolt, which made it to the Dreadnought unscathed. Just thought I'd throw this in. (I know it's 3 years old, but I would hate to see confusion over this in the future.) --Jaychant

==Weak against section==
In the "Weak against" section, the Arilou Skiff is listed, but then it describes it as an easy match for the Dreadnought, even though the title clearly states that the Skiff is ''weak'' against the ships mentioned in the section. For now, I'm moving the material to the "Strong against" section, but I would like to discuss keeping it in a "weak against" section; I think a Dreadnought is in fact weak against a Skiff. --Jaychant

:According to one of the veterans, Shiver, the outcome of this match-up is strongly dependent on the respective tactics employed, but in general the Dreadnought should win. He says this in the [http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3941.msg51561#msg51561 Skiff section] of his guide. I can see where you're coming from, the Skiff can be a serious pain (especially when AI-piloted), and actually if the Skiff plays to win or at least avoid losing, the Dreadnought won't catch it. But if there's going to be a result the Dreadnought would probably come out on top, for the reasons Shiver mentions. Cheers. --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 19:57, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Talk:Dreadnought

2008-06-12T02:08:24Z

75.45.212.48: /* Melnorme Trader Bolt */

"Ur-Quan fighter pilots are skilled in Gravity Whip maneuvers and use this to augment their already impressive speed." Not that I've noticed- Whenever I play they regularly crash into the planet and bounce off. It is possible that gravity accellerates them slightly (I haven't observed much of a change in speed) but they most certainly don't attempt gravity whips consciously like an Orz [[Space Marine]]. -[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 22:22, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Huh? ==

I agree -- the assertion is completely false. I can't find anything to back this up in the SC2 game manual, so I'm chucking it.
[[User:Nic|Nic]] 22:35, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Been a while ==

I haven't played in eight years. I suppose my memory is fallible. Fair enough. [[User:Mmrnmhrm|Mmrnmhrm]] 08:13, 10 Oct 2004 (CEST)

==Melnorme Trader Bolt==
I've tested the rumour about the trader bolt and fusion blast. Bosth the fully charged bolt and the fusion blast are destroyed.

:No, the fully charged trader blast is stronger. By comparison, the Trader bolt deals 16 damage, but the Ur-Quan fusion bolt deals 6 damage. I'm not sure how much health the Trader bolts have, but the Fusion bolt has six health (or maybe it's 8 health), and I would guess that the Trader bolt has 16 health fully charged, give or take a few. --Jaychant

:EDIT:I tested it, and the fusion bolt was destroyed by the Trader bolt, which made it to the Dreadnought unscathed. Just thought I'd throw this in. (I know it's 3 years old, but I would hate to see an argument over this in the future.) --Jaychant

==Weak against section==
In the "Weak against" section, the Arilou Skiff is listed, but then it describes it as an easy match for the Dreadnought, even though the title clearly states that the Skiff is ''weak'' against the ships mentioned in the section. For now, I'm moving the material to the "Strong against" section, but I would like to discuss keeping it in a "weak against" section; I think a Dreadnought is in fact weak against a Skiff. --Jaychant

:According to one of the veterans, Shiver, the outcome of this match-up is strongly dependent on the respective tactics employed, but in general the Dreadnought should win. He says this in the [http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3941.msg51561#msg51561 Skiff section] of his guide. I can see where you're coming from, the Skiff can be a serious pain (especially when AI-piloted), and actually if the Skiff plays to win or at least avoid losing, the Dreadnought won't catch it. But if there's going to be a result the Dreadnought would probably come out on top, for the reasons Shiver mentions. Cheers. --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 19:57, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Talk:Dreadnought

2008-06-12T02:06:24Z

75.45.212.48: /* Melnorme Trader Bolt */

"Ur-Quan fighter pilots are skilled in Gravity Whip maneuvers and use this to augment their already impressive speed." Not that I've noticed- Whenever I play they regularly crash into the planet and bounce off. It is possible that gravity accellerates them slightly (I haven't observed much of a change in speed) but they most certainly don't attempt gravity whips consciously like an Orz [[Space Marine]]. -[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 22:22, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Huh? ==

I agree -- the assertion is completely false. I can't find anything to back this up in the SC2 game manual, so I'm chucking it.
[[User:Nic|Nic]] 22:35, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Been a while ==

I haven't played in eight years. I suppose my memory is fallible. Fair enough. [[User:Mmrnmhrm|Mmrnmhrm]] 08:13, 10 Oct 2004 (CEST)

==Melnorme Trader Bolt==
I've tested the rumour about the trader bolt and fusion blast. Bosth the fully charged bolt and the fusion blast are destroyed.

:No, the fully charged trader blast is stronger. By comparison, the Trader bolt deals 16 damage, but the Ur-Quan fusion bolt deals 6 damage. I'm not sure how much health the Trader bolts have, but the Fusion bolt has six health (or maybe it's 8 health), and I would guess that the Trader bolt has 16 health fully charged, give or take a few. --Jaychant

:EDIT:I tested it, and the fusion bolt was destroyed by the Trader bolt, which made it to the Dreadnought unscathed. --Jaychant

==Weak against section==
In the "Weak against" section, the Arilou Skiff is listed, but then it describes it as an easy match for the Dreadnought, even though the title clearly states that the Skiff is ''weak'' against the ships mentioned in the section. For now, I'm moving the material to the "Strong against" section, but I would like to discuss keeping it in a "weak against" section; I think a Dreadnought is in fact weak against a Skiff. --Jaychant

:According to one of the veterans, Shiver, the outcome of this match-up is strongly dependent on the respective tactics employed, but in general the Dreadnought should win. He says this in the [http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3941.msg51561#msg51561 Skiff section] of his guide. I can see where you're coming from, the Skiff can be a serious pain (especially when AI-piloted), and actually if the Skiff plays to win or at least avoid losing, the Dreadnought won't catch it. But if there's going to be a result the Dreadnought would probably come out on top, for the reasons Shiver mentions. Cheers. --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 19:57, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Talk:Dreadnought

2008-06-12T02:03:19Z

75.45.212.48: /* Melnorme Trader Bolt */

"Ur-Quan fighter pilots are skilled in Gravity Whip maneuvers and use this to augment their already impressive speed." Not that I've noticed- Whenever I play they regularly crash into the planet and bounce off. It is possible that gravity accellerates them slightly (I haven't observed much of a change in speed) but they most certainly don't attempt gravity whips consciously like an Orz [[Space Marine]]. -[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 22:22, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Huh? ==

I agree -- the assertion is completely false. I can't find anything to back this up in the SC2 game manual, so I'm chucking it.
[[User:Nic|Nic]] 22:35, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Been a while ==

I haven't played in eight years. I suppose my memory is fallible. Fair enough. [[User:Mmrnmhrm|Mmrnmhrm]] 08:13, 10 Oct 2004 (CEST)

==Melnorme Trader Bolt==
I've tested the rumour about the trader bolt and fusion blast. Bosth the fully charged bolt and the fusion blast are destroyed.

:No, the fully charged trader blast is stronger. By comparison, the Trader bolt deals 16 damage, but the Ur-Quan fusion bolt deals 6 damage. I'm not sure how much health the Trader bolts have, but the Fusion bolt has six health (or maybe it's 8 health), and I would guess that the Trader bolt has 16 health fully charged, give or take a few. --Jaychant

==Weak against section==
In the "Weak against" section, the Arilou Skiff is listed, but then it describes it as an easy match for the Dreadnought, even though the title clearly states that the Skiff is ''weak'' against the ships mentioned in the section. For now, I'm moving the material to the "Strong against" section, but I would like to discuss keeping it in a "weak against" section; I think a Dreadnought is in fact weak against a Skiff. --Jaychant

:According to one of the veterans, Shiver, the outcome of this match-up is strongly dependent on the respective tactics employed, but in general the Dreadnought should win. He says this in the [http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3941.msg51561#msg51561 Skiff section] of his guide. I can see where you're coming from, the Skiff can be a serious pain (especially when AI-piloted), and actually if the Skiff plays to win or at least avoid losing, the Dreadnought won't catch it. But if there's going to be a result the Dreadnought would probably come out on top, for the reasons Shiver mentions. Cheers. --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 19:57, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Talk:Dreadnought

2008-06-12T02:01:03Z

75.45.212.48: /* Melnorme Trader Bolt */

"Ur-Quan fighter pilots are skilled in Gravity Whip maneuvers and use this to augment their already impressive speed." Not that I've noticed- Whenever I play they regularly crash into the planet and bounce off. It is possible that gravity accellerates them slightly (I haven't observed much of a change in speed) but they most certainly don't attempt gravity whips consciously like an Orz [[Space Marine]]. -[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 22:22, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Huh? ==

I agree -- the assertion is completely false. I can't find anything to back this up in the SC2 game manual, so I'm chucking it.
[[User:Nic|Nic]] 22:35, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Been a while ==

I haven't played in eight years. I suppose my memory is fallible. Fair enough. [[User:Mmrnmhrm|Mmrnmhrm]] 08:13, 10 Oct 2004 (CEST)

==Melnorme Trader Bolt==
I've tested the rumour about the trader bolt and fusion blast. Bosth the fully charged bolt and the fusion blast are destroyed.

No, the fully charged trader blast is stronger. By comparison, the Trader bolt deals 16 damage, but the Ur-Quan fusion bolt deals 6 damage. I'm not sure how much health the Trader bolts have, but the Fusion bolt has six health (or maybe it's 8 health), and I would guess that the Trader bolt has 16 health fully charged, give or take a few. --Jaychant

==Weak against section==
In the "Weak against" section, the Arilou Skiff is listed, but then it describes it as an easy match for the Dreadnought, even though the title clearly states that the Skiff is ''weak'' against the ships mentioned in the section. For now, I'm moving the material to the "Strong against" section, but I would like to discuss keeping it in a "weak against" section; I think a Dreadnought is in fact weak against a Skiff. --Jaychant

:According to one of the veterans, Shiver, the outcome of this match-up is strongly dependent on the respective tactics employed, but in general the Dreadnought should win. He says this in the [http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3941.msg51561#msg51561 Skiff section] of his guide. I can see where you're coming from, the Skiff can be a serious pain (especially when AI-piloted), and actually if the Skiff plays to win or at least avoid losing, the Dreadnought won't catch it. But if there's going to be a result the Dreadnought would probably come out on top, for the reasons Shiver mentions. Cheers. --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 19:57, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Talk:Dreadnought

2008-06-12T01:58:00Z

75.45.212.48: /* Weak against section */

"Ur-Quan fighter pilots are skilled in Gravity Whip maneuvers and use this to augment their already impressive speed." Not that I've noticed- Whenever I play they regularly crash into the planet and bounce off. It is possible that gravity accellerates them slightly (I haven't observed much of a change in speed) but they most certainly don't attempt gravity whips consciously like an Orz [[Space Marine]]. -[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 22:22, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Huh? ==

I agree -- the assertion is completely false. I can't find anything to back this up in the SC2 game manual, so I'm chucking it.
[[User:Nic|Nic]] 22:35, 9 Oct 2004 (CEST)

== Been a while ==

I haven't played in eight years. I suppose my memory is fallible. Fair enough. [[User:Mmrnmhrm|Mmrnmhrm]] 08:13, 10 Oct 2004 (CEST)

==Melnorme Trader Bolt==
I've tested the rumour about the trader bolt and fusion blast. Bosth the fully charged bolt and the fusion blast are destroyed.

==Weak against section==
In the "Weak against" section, the Arilou Skiff is listed, but then it describes it as an easy match for the Dreadnought, even though the title clearly states that the Skiff is ''weak'' against the ships mentioned in the section. For now, I'm moving the material to the "Strong against" section, but I would like to discuss keeping it in a "weak against" section; I think a Dreadnought is in fact weak against a Skiff. --Jaychant

:According to one of the veterans, Shiver, the outcome of this match-up is strongly dependent on the respective tactics employed, but in general the Dreadnought should win. He says this in the [http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3941.msg51561#msg51561 Skiff section] of his guide. I can see where you're coming from, the Skiff can be a serious pain (especially when AI-piloted), and actually if the Skiff plays to win or at least avoid losing, the Dreadnought won't catch it. But if there's going to be a result the Dreadnought would probably come out on top, for the reasons Shiver mentions. Cheers. --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 19:57, 11 June 2008 (CEST)

Dreadnought

2008-06-10T23:00:38Z

75.45.212.48: /* Tactical Overview */

__NOTOC__
<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 align="right">
<tr><td>[[Image:Star_control_i_ur-quan_dreadnought_databank.png|thumb|225px|Starship Databank Entry]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>{{UrQuanNav}}</td></tr>
</table>

The [[Ur-Quan Kzer-Za]] '''Dreadnought''' is the mainstay of the [[Hierarchy]] fleets. A fully-crewed Dreadnought can crush most opponents with ease. While it is a powerful battleship in melee combat, the Dreadnought is also designed to be a Planetary Siege Unit, able to single-handedly subdue an entire planet. Even from orbit, its fusion weapons are more than capable of destroying large structures on and beneath a planet's surface. The massive girth of the vessel is reinforced with the special ''Eterna-tech'' metal unique to Ur-Quan technology. The only other ships as massive as the Dreadnought are the [[Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah|Kohr-Ah]] [[Marauder]] and [[The Flagship]]. In the unlikely chance that it is disabled, the vessel has been designed to self-destruct to prevent other species from reverse-engineering Ur-Quan technology. Interestingly, a Dreadnought is known to have only one [[Ur-Quan]] on board, because of their intense territoriality. The remaining 41 crew members are believed to be either robots or [[battle thralls]] forced to work on board the Dreadnought.

==Navigation==
The Dreadnought is not a fast or nimble ship. It doesn't have to be. One of these ships — never mind an entire fleet of them — can lumber along and expect to defeat almost any opponent. The strength of the Dreadnought lies in its enormous firepower and considerable crew size.

==Armament==

===Primary===
The Dreadnought's fusion cannon (also named "fusion blaster", similar to the [[Flagship]] [[Fusion Blaster (module)|module]]) can destroy small ships in one or two hits. The only drawbacks to this weapon are the Dreadnought's never-quite-fast-enough turn rate and the significant amount of energy required to employ it. The second factor is mostly negligible given the Dreadnought's high energy recharge rate. So powerful is this attack that defensive systems like the [[Chmmr]] [[Avatar]]'s Zap-Sat array are useless against it, although a skilled pilot may make use of the [[Avatar]]'s tractor beam to pull it into a swift demise at the force of its heavy x-ray laser; also, a fully charged [[Melnorme]] [[Trader]] Energy Bolt will win in a head-on collision.

===Secondary===
The Ur-Quan captain can also send out small, one-man fighter ships armed with lasers to harass the enemy. Each fighter has only a limited supply of life support and fuel and must return to the Dreadnought after its brief sortie. These fighters are of little use against ships equipped with auto targeting weapons (such as the [[Earthling]] [[Cruiser]]) but a sufficient swarm of them can team up to puncture an enemy hull in seconds.

==Tactical Overview==
"Finesse" is not a word that exists in a Dreadnought captain's vocabulary. Victory is nominally achieved through the application of superior firepower in large amounts. The relatively high firing rate on the main cannon facilitates this strategy quite nicely, but the slower-than-optimal turning rate can complicate things. Against slow ships, fighters can finish the fight before it starts, but against fast ships they're mostly useless. In fact, fighters can make a battle easier for the opponent by providing a way to sap crew members without getting too close to the main ship.

===Strong Against===
[[Umgah]] [[Drone]]: The incredibly short range, slow speed and poor turning of the Drone leaves it a sitting duck for fusion blasts - which, incidentally, can pierce the antimatter cone.

[[Arilou]] [[Skiff]]: The Skiff is capable, with enough skill on the part of the pilot, of dodging the Ur-Quan's Fusion shots and doing some damage but fighters can decimate Arilou, as the laser is always aiming towards the Dreadnought. This match-up will take a while, but the Dreadnought is the most likely victor.

===Tenuous Against===
[[Earthling]] [[Cruiser]]: The Cruiser's point-defense lasers render the Dreadnought's fighters completely useless, and its guided missiles allow it to whittle away at the Dreadnought's crew with alarming speed. Up close, however, the Dreadnought can tear through an enemy Cruiser in seconds. The Dreadnought's best bet is to close in on the Cruiser before it can gain momentum. Barring gravity whips, the Dreadnought is strictly faster than the Cruiser, so closing in should not be a problem.

===Weak Against===

{{ShipBox|image=Dreadnought_icon.png|link=dreadn|race=[[Ur-Quan Kzer-Za|Ur-Quan]]|crew=42|value=30|batt=42|regen=0.14|primary=Fusion Cannon|prim-rate=6|prim-cost=6|secondary=Launch Fighters|sec-rate=9|sec-cost=8|speed=30|turn=0.2|accel=0.86|mass=10}}

[[Category:Kzer-Za]]

Talk:Dreadnought

2008-06-10T22:59:51Z

75.45.212.48: New section: Weak against section