Ultronomicon - User contributions [en]

User talk:Fyzixfighter

2010-11-04T07:36:34Z

Sc2player: /* Orz */ new section

You added the list of stars and constellations that do not have basic in reality. I have some memory loss, so I dont want to change the page without someone double checking, but I seem to remember Wolf 359 is a real star with a companion black hole, so Wolf could be removed from the list

:True, but in the SC2 universe, Wolf is a constellation, whereas the in real life Wolf 359 is a single star. Are there other Wolf stars, like a Wolf catalog of stars? There's also a type of stars called Wolf-Rayet. Imho, since its not a star-star or constellation-constellation correlation, I think that it would belong on the list. We can always include a mention of Wolf 359 in the entry, also. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 06:09, 17 Nov 2005 (CET)

::I seem to recall it being documented somewhere that the HyperSpace starmap shows stars that are actually different from the way that we (in reality) see and name stars in "TrueSpace". Stars in HyperSpace are different from those stars in TrueSpace, even if they have the same name. What we see as Betelgeuse in the HyperSpace map is actually not the same Betelgeuse star that we see right now in the 21st century. I think it's explained as humans, when they see the stars as they appear from HyperSpace, assign their own familiar names to these stars. --[[User:Phoenix|Phoenix]] [[User_talk:Phoenix|(t)]] 07:16, 17 Nov 2005 (CET)

:::On the hyperspace star map that came with the game: "The positions are based on HyperSpace coordinates, which may be unsettling to some students of TrueSpace astronomy. Defined long ago by Chenjesu stargazers, the constellations are now accepted by all Alliance races as ''the'' standard. Due to the great diffuculty in pronouncing the Chenjesu language, each race has translated the names into their own tongue. When it came time for Earth to adopt this system, the United Nations decided to use traditional astrological designations at random." I think I might need to be more explicit on that list, to say that these are the names that are neither real constellation names or individual star names. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 08:01, 17 Nov 2005 (CET)

Hi there. In the Probe article, I think you left a sentence dangling: "Unlike catalog item 2419, this". I'd finish it myself if I knew the rest. :-) --[[User:Doubleyou|Doubleyou]] 00:11, 2 Dec 2005 (CET)
:Blast, guess I forgot something when I was moving everything around. IIRC that sentence fragment was part of an intermediate draft of that paragraph and is now redundant. Fixing... --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 00:37, 2 Dec 2005 (CET)

Hey FyzixFighter, is there some rule preventing you from obliterating [http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Game_Humor this page]? --[[User:Shiver|Shiver]] 05:41, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

== Cargo images ==

FYI, people complained that my old cargo images taken from the UQM content were too tiny. We should probably use the wiki software to scale those up 2x (and the new ones you uploaded) for wherever they are used in articles, unless somebody wants to scale them manually and upload new versions.
-[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 01:37, 16 January 2006 (CET)
:Thanks for the reminder. Yeah, I remember seeing the comments about that and agree the raw images are much too small. I believe <crossing-fingers> that I uploaded copies of all the raw images, except those that had already been uploaded. Not being a really aesthetic person, I avoided figuring out the right scale but, like you've already noted, the wiki software can easily resize them to whatever we decide on. I hope I didn't offend anyone or step on anyone's toes when I made those uploads, but I kind of agree with Svdb that it's more honest to present the raw material instead of enhanced images, unless we all agree on how to enhance those images - just my R$ 0.0456600. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 04:20, 16 January 2006 (CET)
::I agree with you and SvdB about using the straight game content, and not only out of laziness. :)
::There are other places for enhanced images... i.e. PONAF. Back when the Ultronomicon was a bit younger, there was discussion about using PONAF's animated gifs of each race's comm screen, but I was against this (as was SvdB if I recall). There is a place for everything, and I don't think that the Ultronomicon is the place for 'enhanced' content, especially if it is scaled to an arbitrary size with an arbitrary resizing algorithm that tries to make the graphics appear smoother than they actually are.
::The only kind of pre-upload scaling I would support for the Ultronomicon is nearest neighbor 2x (basic, pixelated scaling), although screenshots of UQM using its internal scalers for purposes of comparison may be appropriate.
::-[[User:Fadookie|Fadookie]] 07:08, 16 January 2006 (CET)

== Footer nav plate. ==

What are you planning to do with those footer nav plates? I think they're nice, but main Ultronomicon pages shouldn't refer to pages in the User namespace. — [[User:Svdb|SvdB]] 05:58, 6 October 2006 (CEST)

:Sorry about that - yeah, I was planning on moving them out of my personal namespace. They still might need a little work, but you're right that they should be in the main space. I'll move them over today. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 19:45, 6 October 2006 (CEST)

== SC2/UQM star database? ==

Is there a small database defining all the stars? Or is there any XML files around defining all starnames, their positions in space, their color and their size (how big it should be on a map)? It would be neat to create a vector-based starmap of the 2D-universe... maybe by using SVG. It would not be hard to do it, given the right data :)

-- MrMist

:Well, I might not be the best one to answer your question as the limits of my involvement with UQM is basically this wiki. But I can tell you that you're not the first, nor will you be the last to want to do something like this. In fact, several fans have created a number of maps [http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/sc2/maps.shtml]. The topic has also come up on the UQM discussion boards more than once, so I would recommend scanning the threads there. One in particular [http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3133.msg39391#msg39391] has a link to the data you're looking for, and tells you where you can find it in the actual game code. Likewise, someone awhile back created a page of [[Star Coordinates]] (though it lacks the color and size).--[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 02:14, 17 December 2006 (CET)

:There is functionality in uqm that can print a list of all the info you'd need. It's not in XML format, but it would be trivial to change the code to dump it anyway you like. You'd need to compile the game from source in debug mode though.
:An interactive SVG based starmap exists. See [http://seijin.ath.cx/cgi-bin/uqm/ this page].
: — [[User:Svdb|SvdB]] 07:19, 17 December 2006 (CET)

::[[Image:screen.png|thumb|right|Screenshot of current starmap]]I'm more interested in creating a completely vectorized map, rather than using loads of bitmaps to draw the elements of the maps. Luckily I found some files in the CVS, that reflects all the constellation positions in simple, readable format. I've made some scripts transforming the data to XML, and I've made a XSLT stylesheet, transforming the document to SVG. I'm attaching a screenshot of the SVG at the current state of development. --[[User:MrMist|MrMist]] 11:50, 19 December 2006 (CET)

:::Oh, you're only interested in the stars, not the planets. Right, plandata.c should be enough then.
:::Note however, that the Ultronomicon is not an image dump for SC2-related pictures. If an image does not go with an article, it doesn't have a place here. I'll leave it for the moment, but don't expect it to last. Actually, even this discussion shouldn't be here. We have the [http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/ UQM forum] for things like this. — [[User:Svdb|SvdB]] 12:41, 19 December 2006 (CET)

:::: Ah. I see. Well... I though this wiki was supposed to contain all things surrounding Ur-Quan Masters. As for the picture: I just wanted to provide an example to describe the things I've been requesting, and also to document the current progress of development. It was kind of natural to provide a visual example. I did however not expect it to be such a big problem to post a screenshot. Don't worry... I'll quit writing here right away.--[[User:MrMist|MrMist]] 14:22, 19 December 2006 (CET)

Oh, you wanted to make a starmap for in the Ultronomicon. I misunderstood. In that case a request for information is appropriate here. I apologise for jumping to conclusions. — [[User:Svdb|SvdB]] 17:47, 20 December 2006 (CET)

==SC1 and SC3==
Assertion 1: Ur-quan masters equivalent of Star Control II. Assertion 2: Star Control I and Star Control III are in existence. Assertion 3: Full knowledge of Star Control requires full knowledge of series. Assertion 4: Database identified as Ultronomicon deals exclusively with Ur-quan Masters. Conclusion A: Star Control databases must include information on Star Control I and Star Control III. Conclusion B: Database identified as Ultronomicon is incomplete. Query: Unit identified as Fyyzixfighter is directed to either affirm or negate this argument. -A petetionning [[User:Daktaklakpak|Daktaklakpak]] 22:17, 14 February 2007 (CET)

==FYI==
The name of the Avatar laser is actually a "Terawatt Laser". http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/sc2/shipspecs/rw-chmmr-spec.jpg [[User:68.88.74.19|68.88.74.19]] 02:46, 10 May 2007 (CEST)

:Sorry, that image is not part of the accepted Star Control [[canon]]. It is a fan-made image - I'll try and hunt down who created it. In actuality, I believe it is a touched up version of the 3DO spinning image of the ship. The names on it, and the other fan-made images for SC2 unique ships, are for the most part fan-made also, and do not appear anywhere in the canon. The Star Control Writers FAQ is also not necessarily canon. I don't know where the person got the name terawatt from in that FAQ, but it's not from the manuals, the RPRG, or the game itself - therefore, it's fanfic plain and simple. Of course I'm open the idea that I may have missed something (as I discovered as I listened to the 3DO ship descriptions), but please remember how we define canon for the Ultronomicon. Cheers. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 04:51, 10 May 2007 (CEST)

Perhaps they used their brains and engaged in critical thinking rather than just replaying SC2 dialogue over and over again to arrive at that conclusion? The VUX laser is, after all, named a Megawatt laser. [[User:68.88.74.19|68.88.74.19]] 21:18, 10 May 2007 (CEST)

:Honestly I'm fine with people extrapolating when they're creating fan-fiction. However, we strive on the Ultronomicon to stick to canon. Any reading between the lines and critical thinking should be guided by the canon. Also, please don't insinuate that I didn't use my brains nor think critically about this topic. Let me show you how I consider this critically: if someone used their critical thinking to get "Terawatt" then I have to question their reasoning abilities because the jump from Tera- to Giga- (the VUX laser is a Gigawatt not a Megawatt) seems simply based on the general fact that the Avatar laser is more powerful. The SC2 manual states that the Avatar laser has "twice the destructive force of the feared VUX laser" (a point which is confirmed in-game, see also [[List of weapons]] for damage]]). A terawatt (10^12) is not twice a <s>megawatt</s> gigawatt (10^9) (or 30 dB greater if you like a log scale - a factor of 2 would be 3dB by the way). It looks like tera- was chosen simply because it's just the next metric prefix above giga-, but why not call it an Petawatt or an Exawatt or a Zetawatt (I think the argument for Zeta- is a little bit easier since a Zetawatt is 240 dBm and a Gigawatt is 120 dBm). We really should then call it a "2 Gigawatt Laser", assuming of course that laser power scales as destructive force, which it may not in such a non-linear regime (I've played with Terawatt/Gigawatt pulsed lasers (~25fs pulses) to drive non-linear processes). I certainly would be interested in knowing the reasoning behind "Terawatt" to see if the reasoning was more subtle and insightful than "Terawatt is the next metric unit above Gigawatt, therefore let's call it a Terawatt".

:If you want to call it a terawatt in your gameplay and when talking with others, go ahead, I really couldn't care less; but please avoid non-canon terminology to the Ultronomicon. We certainly would appreciate your help on making the Ultronomicon better, and it would be sad if you don't based solely on this one disagreement of acceptable canon. However, if the adherence to this defined canon is too much of a sticking point, then we are at an impasse and any material you add based on non-canon sources will be removed. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 00:41, 11 May 2007 (CEST)

::Quick defense in the case of the Terawatt, however, can you say where you found the name x-ray laser? I never heard it.--[[User:Gaeamil|Gaeamil]] 06:21, 13 May 2007 (CEST)

:It is named so in the 3DO ship spin video. I don't know where it can be found on the Internet, if it can - I don't know if Fyzixfighter had the 3DO SC2. [[User:Valaggar|Valaggar]] 07:52, 13 May 2007 (CEST)

::Are those the videos where the ship rotates while a female voice describes them? If so, they're all on the Pages of Now and Forever.--[[User:Gaeamil|Gaeamil]] 07:54, 13 May 2007 (CEST)

:::Yep, that's where I found them (I don't have the 3DO version personally). Go here [http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/3do/] and click on any of the ships on the left to play the videos. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 08:07, 13 May 2007 (CEST)

== 3DO Ship Spin Models ==

We can use the 3DO Ship Spin images together with in-game/Databank pictures on ship pages. I just wanted you to know that, I don't think anyone has any objections. [[User:Valaggar|Valaggar]] 11:48, 13 May 2007 (CEST)

:There was some similar discussion in regards to including animated gifs for the spec images over on [[Talk:Blade]]. I'm inclined to agree that moving images/video on the page would be distracting, and a steady state image is preferable. I'm also not sure if the hi-res movie files are still up on fileplanet, leaving us with only the lowres vids on PONAF. I think including a link to the specific page on PONAF with the 3DO video would work, without being too distracting and still providing access to the info, but I'm still mulling over the manner of including the link (in a template, external link section, see also section, in-line link,...). --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 23:04, 13 May 2007 (CEST)

So we should indeed use the ''images'', and make them link to the 3DO videos? Sounds good. [[User:Valaggar|Valaggar]] 13:02, 14 May 2007 (CEST)

:Depends on which ''images'' you're talking about - I'm not exactly certain I understand which images you mean. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 17:18, 14 May 2007 (CEST)

I mean screenshots from the 3DO videos. However, I don't see a method to take them - my screen capture software (both 2 programs) don't capture that well, and RealPlayer doesn't seem to have a "save" option. There must be a way anyway. [[User:Valaggar|Valaggar]] 17:31, 14 May 2007 (CEST)

==Pointless articles==
The following articles are just cluttering the wiki and are included in your "Pointless articles" section. I support their deletion.
*[[Alpha Lyrae]]
*[[Beta Andromedae]]
*[[Beta Centauri]]
*[[Beta Lyrae]]
*[[Delta Centauri]]
*[[Epsilon Centauri]]
*[[Gamma Centauri]]
*[[Zeta Centauri]]
*[[Achernar]]
*[[Canopus]]
*[[Capella]]

You know, non-admins cannot delete articles. [[User:Valaggar|Valaggar]] 16:42, 1 June 2007 (CEST)

:Yeah, I've been meaning to get to that list but school/work has been quite busy as of late (I'm only posting now because I'm waiting on a measurement). I'd definitely be in favor of getting rid of the Lyrae star pages and Beta Andromedae - those are completely non-notable. The Centauri stars I hesitate on since they're close to Sol (and Delta C. is actually somewhat notable - most # of BioUnits on a single planet) but the same could be said for Lyrae and Canopus - but I think Centauri has a slightly more prominent position in pop sci-fi simply because of Alpha Centauri so some people might find those of interest. I'm torn on Achernar, Canopus, and Capella since those are single star "constellations" and we have pages on other non-notable constellations. But since this a wiki and not paper (it's all just electrons), eventually it might be nice to have pages for every star. My preference though would be to start on the notable stars before doing the non-notable ones. Let me think on a bit more before I do something (I should have time this weekend). --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 00:16, 2 June 2007 (CEST)

::Cluttering the wiki means cluttering the "Random page" feature, and this I don't like. Plus, we have Sage's planetary database.

==Image Upload Test==
G'day Fyzix, regarding the recent image upload and your subsequent deletion, please see [http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?board=2;topic=3916.4#msg51155 this UQMF thread].

Cheers --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 19:57, 7 December 2007 (CET)

:Thanks Zeracles. Sometimes it's hard getting out of defensive mode given the number of vandals we've had. Anyways, again thanks for the heads up. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 23:37, 7 December 2007 (CET)

I should've put in a good description, sorry.
-ptx

== Vandalism ==
I see you fight with vandalism on almost daily basis. Why not require wiki user login? That would solve the anonymous vandalism at least... ?

[[User:Ptx|Ptx]] 16:55, 13 December 2007 (CET)

:It might, but we've also had instances of anons creating random user names and then vandalizing several pages. Also, I am but a lowly sysop, only able to delete, undelete, rollback, and ban - [[User:Svdb]] (aka meep-eep) is the administrator/bureaucrat/maintainer of the Ultronomicon and would set those kind of things. I'm sure he's already considered that option, so you'd have to ask him why this isn't done. Honestly, I don't mind devoting a lot of time to fighting the anon vandalism - there's little else that I intend to add (I usual compare new edits to canon and make stylistic edits these days), and fighting vandalism is a way to defend something that I and others have put a lot of time into. We've also had good contributions from anons, so the price of fighting the spam/vandalism is worth it for me. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 19:15, 13 December 2007 (CET)
:And you do it all so well too :) --[[User:Zeracles|Zeracles]] 03:05, 16 December 2007 (CET)

==Concerning the Flagship==

Friend Fyzixfighter,

'''Concerning the "Flagship" section of this wiki''',

I have added a -spoiler warning- in this part of the wiki. I acted in good faith as you already understood. I read the main page about the spoilers section after you have repaired my addition(spoiler warning).

This is not my wiki to control and I respect that. Allow me to express my disagreement though.

Concerning the part about the destruction of the flagship, what exactly does it serve?

You, or someone, might say "hey this is a plot element of the flagship", yes I agree with that. Why don't you add a plot section(like in wikipedia)? You can put all the spoilers in a plot section.

I went in the flagship part because I had a question concerning the sideway guns and instead I found that the ship is going to be destroyed. Whenever I go to (for example)wikipedia to check if a movie is good, I skip the plot and I check the criticism and the general receive of the press. Here, in this article, how could I ever skip it?

What is the purpose of giving information for a weapon system (in the game) to someone who doesn't know the game, when in the same time you throw him spoilers?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the "spoiler policy" of this wiki, does this wiki understand how to manage it's "spoiler policy" though?

The reason I wrote here was because I didn't know any other way to communicate with you. If this was the wrong place, please feel free to delete the comment.

Thank you.
[[User:Polemos|Polemos]] 00:32, 21 December 2008 (CET)

:I can understand your disagreement and consternation. Sometimes it can be difficult for those of us who have played the game so much to predict others' intents when exploring the wiki. As to your suggestion of creating separate sections, it might work, but I have some reservations about it. My main worry would be that each section would contain only a few sentences, which may not look very nice. Your comparison to movie articles on wikipedia isn't perfect because each movie has tons of other stuff to talk about besides the plot - here not so much. I think the closest thing we do have is a "Gameplay Notes" section on some of the pages, but even then the spoiler information is still in the main body of the article. Also, I don't see a "plot" section working for every article (indeed for most articles) with spoiler information. In my experience, the spoiler policy is adequate (and similar to other video game wikis) because of the limited size of the SC universe and it works with most articles. Your concern would best be handled by better organization of material (if possible) rather than revamping the spoiler policy. Honestly, that is something that is still needed on several of the pages, for example the Flagship page as you noted, so that the information is organized into a coherent and allows the reader to easily navigate it. If I have time, I might take a look into it, but if you're up to it, go ahead and take a shot at it on the Flagship page (but, like all of us, be ready to have your work edited by others). I'd recommend looking at some of the [[list of ships|ship]] pages as something of a guide - IMO the general format used on those pages could be easily adapted for the Flagship and can accommodate a Plot/History/whatever section (I would lose the tactical overview section though). How does this sound? --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 18:45, 22 December 2008 (CET)

== About full quotes ==

For example,

1) http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Spathi#note_2

As this question was about Spathi, the answer was provided by FF & PR3. The unrelated part about VUX should belong to corresponded article, and ''if'' the answer was provided. As of now, this part looks alienated to the whole article, and should be removed.

By the way, this should be a common thing to other reference types, like:

''Aricle about '''X'''''

''Notes and references:''

''Somebody'': Who are '''X''' and how do '''Y''' look like and where are '''Z''' from, etc.

''FF and PR3'': '''X''' are ... Once upon a time they lived on the planet of... Soon they encountered the culture of ...

As you can see, only the first part is answered and it is related to proper article. This way, Y and Z should be cutted, and they distract of main part and do not contribute at all.

[[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 13:08, 21 January 2009 (CET)

:First off, welcome and thank you for taking an interest in the project. It's always nice to have fresh blood around here. I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree with you on a few points. For one thing it is disingenuous to alter quoted text without some kind of indication (brackets for added words, and ellipses for removed text). If this were a long extended quote, only part of which addressed the topic, and was worked into the main body then I would agree with you. However, this is a very short snippet and in my view the amount of distraction it causes is negligible. It's also not in the main body where clarity is much more important, but in the notes and references section where I feel completeness and transparency are important. That said, if others also feel that the second part is distract then I would be fine with cutting it and indicating the omission with "..." or "[...]", though it might look kind of funny. --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 19:06, 21 January 2009 (CET)

::Thank you for welcoming me and letting me know about the requirement to indicate the changing of quoting. I don't know how much people left here that still edit the articles and look for some minor things. This may appear negligible and most people would ignore this. But for the sake of rightness and accuracy, yes, this would be good to segregate such parts. As the main parts are already complete. [[User:Masterius|Masterius]] 14:19, 22 January 2009 (CET)

== Re: Thraddash Arms ==

I haven't played The Ur-Quan Masters in a LONG time, but I seem to remember if you punched both the afterburner, turn, and the guns at the same time, he'd display three arms pushing three different buttons, or maybe four. [[Special:Contributions/99.160.9.30|99.160.9.30]] 00:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

::: It is possible however that those could have been feet stomping on pedals. It was a 40x40 pixelled square, after all. [[Special:Contributions/99.160.9.30|99.160.9.30]] 00:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== Umgah joined the Alliance ==

I have played the Ur-Quan Masters. I go to Beta Orionis I, homeworld of Umgah, and I conversed them and they gave 2 Drone ships and joined the Alliance, but the player can't buy a ship at starbase. --[[User:Videogamer13|Videogamer13]] 12:28, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

:One of the principal ways to tell if a race joins the alliance is if you can build their ship at the starbase. There are several examples, like the Pkunk, the Yehat, and the Arilou, which provide occasionally provide ships for your SIS escort fleet, but they do not officially join the New Alliance. Again, this is evident from what ships you can build at the starbase, ie native alien captains are being sent to the earth starbase. With regards to the Umgah, I remember them making you the "Great Hero", but quickly changing it to "Great Enemy" because of their strange sense of humor. But perhaps I'm remembering it incorrectly. In your view, what do the Umgah say that makes you think they join the Alliance? --[[User:Fyzixfighter|Fyzixfighter]] 20:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, they say you are the "Great Hero" and they gave 2 Drone ships to Vindicator. --[[User:Videogamer13|Videogamer13]] 11:56, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

== The Hierarchy vs. Alliance ==

Just like the Al-Qaeda war against US, and just like Christian/Jewish Alliance against the Muslim. The Ur-Quan Hierarchy have threaten the Alliance on the first threat to start a war. Like a religious war, the Al-Qaeda terrorists destroy the World Trade Center on New York on the first threat on Sept 11, 2001, then the Christian/Jewish Alliance (US-Israel Alliance) strikes back. The Ur-Quan Hierarchy is similar to Islam, and the Alliance are the Christianity and Judaism. --[[User:Videogamer13|Videogamer13]] 15:39, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

== Utwig ==

Did the Utwig join the Hierarchy? --[[User:Videogamer13|Videogamer13]] 06:29, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

== Orz ==

If the player talk too much about the Androsynth to them, the Orz will attack the player. But why the Orz never join the Hierarchy? --[[User:Sc2player|Sc2player]] 07:36, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Orz

2010-11-03T21:28:37Z

Sc2player:

{{RaceBox|name=Orz|image=OrzComm.png|caption=Orz *fingers*|homeworld=[[Gamma Vulpeculae I]]|coordinates=371.3 : 253.7|organizations=[[Ur-Quan Hierarchy]] (battle thrall) <br> [[New Alliance of Free Stars]] (optional)|ship=[[Nemesis]]}}
The '''Orz''' are — is — an alien species/projections of an extradimensional entity first encountered by [[The Captain]] in the space near where the [[Androsynth]] had been known to reside. Despite a notable distaste for the human-derived Androsynth and for the mysterious [[Arilou]], the Orz happily joined with the [[New Alliance of Free Stars]] and provided its powerful [[Nemesis]] starship designs to aid in the Second War.

==Description==

Orz appear as gill-breathers who resemble yellow parrotfishes with eyestalks, though it is not known if this is their actual true form. Direct conversation with Orz, despite the translation difficulties, usually leads to the conclusion that the Orz come from another dimension; additionally the [[Arilou]] describe the Orz as "dimensional travellers." When asked about their origins, the Orz explain that, though both the Arilou and the Orz are from the *outside*, the Arilou are from *above* while the Orz are from [[*Below*|*below*]]. The precise meaning of this explanation is still up to debate. There are three possible interpretations — if *above* refers to QuasiSpace, *below* would then likely refer to another, similar dimension located on the "other side" of [[HyperSpace]] and [[TrueSpace]]; if *outside* refers to QuasiSpace, then *above* and *below* might be regions of QuasiSpace; *above* and *below* may also stand for an obscure characteristic of the Orz in contrast to Arilou.

There has been some discussion — confirmed by [[Fred Ford]] and [[Paul Reiche III]] — that the Orz as they are seen in normal space are actually a projection of some higher-dimensional being, namely [[They|Them]].{{ref|1}} The Orz-entity refers to what is seen of itself in the known dimensions as its *fingers* and explains that it is not like other races who are *many bubbles*. In essence, all Orz may be multiple manifestations of ''the same creature''. The Orz sometimes refer to themselves in the singular third person, although whether this is another quirk of the Orz's odd speech pattern or a reference to their true essence is unclear.

==Origin==

The Orz are a newcomer to [[TrueSpace]] that appeared suddenly in the vicinity of the [[Vulpeculae]] constellation, the adopted homeworlds of the [[Androsynth]]. As the Androsynth vanished about the same time the Orz arrived, it is reasonable to think that the Orz did something to them, but asking the Orz about the subject infuriates them. The [[Melnorme]] and the [[Spathi]] state that the Orz caused the Androsynth disappearance, but both admit that this is their belief and not an actual certainty. Based on comments from the [[Arilou]], it is possible that the [[Inter-Dimensional Fatigue]] experiments that were being performed by the Androsynth (and perhaps the [[Taalo]] before them) brought the Vulpeculae constellation to the Orz's attention.

[[Image:orz_captain.png|right|110px|Orz Nemesis captain]]
Just where the Orz resided before arriving in the area of Vulpeculae is unknown. The Orz indicate that they like TrueSpace and even prefer it over their origin dimension and are now in the process of fully moving into TrueSpace. They also denote that they have no intention of returning at any time to their original home.

==Relations with other races==
Only a few of the races in Star Control II mention the Orz at all. This is not surprising as they appear to be new in TrueSpace. The relations that they do have are as mysterious as the Orz themselves.

===Androsynth===
The appearance of the Orz coincided with the disappearance of the Androsynth from the same location. In fact, both the Arilou and the Orz themselves suggest that it was the [[Dimensional Fatigue|IDF]] research of the Androsynth which enabled the Orz to come to TrueSpace.

Whether the Orz themselves were the cause for the disappearance of the Androsynth is the subject of a lot of speculation. Evidence for it exists, but is very circumstantial. Whatever their involvement, asking too much about the Androsynth is enough reason for the Orz to attack you.

===Arilou Lalee'lay===
Dialogs with both the Arilou and Orz suggest that they have had contact outside of TrueSpace. The Orz do not like the Arilou very much, and complain that the Arilou are always "*jumping in front*". Conversely, the Arilou warn not to trust the Orz, as they are dangerous.

===Melnorme===
The Melnorme know of the existence of the Orz, and that they appeared when the Androsynth disappeared. Whether they've met them in person is unclear. While there is a Melnorme trader in Orz space, the Orz never mention Melnorme.

===Spathi===
The Spathi also mention that the Orz entered this space when the Androsynth disappeared. They think that they are creepy and warn against an alliance. This is all based on their own speculation though, and arguably the Spathi would object to an alliance with almost any race on this basis. Whether they have met the Orz in person or only heard about them from descriptions is unclear.

===Taalo===
The Orz mention the Taalo on several occasions. They seem to have been in contact over a longer period of time. According to the Orz, the Taalo have fled TrueSpace to [[*Pretty Space*]], to which the Orz can also go. The Orz refer to [[Delta Vulpeculae II-C]] as the Taalo *playground*, where the Taalo "are making *Time jokes*", and the Orz *chase* the Taalo and *play* with them. The Orz consider the Taalo to be better *campers* than the Humans. As the Orz language isn't very clear, it may be that this is all in the past though.

===VUX===
The Orz briefly mention the VUX, as being "*silly cows*" for asking too many questions about the Androsynth, which prompted the Orz to attack the VUX. (*silly cows* are races disliked by Orz)

==Theories==
There are various theories to explain the various mysteries surrounding the Orz.

===The Orz are [[They|Them]]===
There are theories that the Orz are in fact the ghost-like creatures that the Androsyth IDF researchers (and [[Bukowski]], probably) ran into. They are mostly based on the fact that ''They'' were coming into this world just before the Androsynth disappeared, which was when the Orz appeared. Even when accepting that the timing of the appearance of the Orz is not a coincidence, they do not have to be ''Them''. The Orz could have detected the Androsynth in the same way as ''They'' did.

It has been confirmed (in the 2007 [[TFB chat protocols|chat]]) that the Orz is/are a part of Them, or rather the projection of Them into TrueSpace.

===The Orz killed the Androsynth===
This is based again on the timing of the appearance of the Orz and the disappearance of the Androsynth, combined with the fact that the Orz refuse to talk about the Androsynth. If this is true, then the Orz would be responsible for the violent land war that wiped out the Androsynth civilization. This is suggested by both the Melnorme and the Spathi. In the same dialogs however, it is made clear that they don't actually know that. A reliable source explicitly asserts that the Androsynth were indeed "snagged" by the Orz entity.{{ref|2}}

===The Orz are altered Androsynth===
This theory is a variation of the idea that the Orz are responsible for the disappearance of the Androsynth. In this theory, "snagged" is interpreted as meaning some kind of infection or possession that transformed the Androsynth into the Orz. Usually this theory is proposed as a way to explain the mysterious lack of Androsynth corpses in the ruins of their city. The [[Arilou]] description of malignant, parasitic creatures from Beyond (''Them'') and reference to the Androsynth and Orz as an example are also usually taken as evidence of this theory.

===The Orz are protecting races by killing those who ask too many questions about the Androsynth===
This reflects the remarks made by the Arilou about parasites from beyond that can detect you when you show yourself. If you reject the theory that the Orz killed the Androsynth, this would provide an alternative explanation that connects 'Them', the disappearance of the Androsynth, and the Orz. In this case, the Orz, like the Arilou, would be attempting to keep TrueSpace races ignorant of and thus invisible to the extradimensional parasites. This theory has been shown to be false in the 2007 [[TFB chat protocols|IRC chat]] with [[Toys for Bob]] (see [[#The Orz are Them|The Orz are Them]]).

===The Orz snagged the Androsynth to protect them from [[They|Them]]===
This one is a variation of the theory previously presented, that also explains what the Orz did to the Androsynth.
However, this appears to contradict the Arilou's statements that the Orz are dangerous and not to be trusted. This theory has been shown to be false in the 2007 [[TFB chat protocols|IRC chat]] with [[Toys for Bob]] (see [[#The Orz are Them|The Orz are Them]]).

===The Orz seek to take advantage of indigenous races in some undefined way===
The Orz say they dislike the Arilou because they are "jumping in front." The Arilou claim to have changed humans to protect them from the "parasites" that would like to find them. It may be that the Orz want space and races that the Arilou do not control as these would be easier to conquer or manipulate.

==Translating Orz Communications==
{{main|Orz communications}}
The translation computer aboard [[The Flagship]] is not able to accurately translate many of the words the Orz are using. While in most cases the meaning can be approximated from the context, an exact translation is usually highly speculative

==Notes and references==
{{note|1}}{{IRC2007}}
::23:55 <+Cap`n`Kyth> One thing I've wondered - is Orz the same as 'Them', or is Orz "competing" with 'Them' over the Androsynth (like food?), or protecting the Androsynth from 'Them' - by *pulling* the Androsynth away before 'They' can find the Androsynth again?<br>
::23:57 <+PR3> The Orz is part of Them, the projection of Them into TrueSpace.
{{note|2}}{{IRC1998}}
::<LordR-man> Fwiffo- What really happened to the Androsynth in sc2?<br>
::<Fwiffo> In regards to the Androsynth: They were snagged by the entity who/which projected its fingers into our dimension (which looked to us as the Orz.)

[[Category:Races]]
[[Category:Orz| ]]
[[Category:Game Characters]]

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2010-11-03T21:25:36Z

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