Talk:Talking Pet (device) - Revision history

Svdb: /* New species? */ reply

2006-12-13T17:42:41Z

New species?: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:42, 13 December 2006
Line 96:		Line 96:
	::''Besides, it wasn't me who did that, it was my ancient ancestors.''		::''Besides, it wasn't me who did that, it was my ancient ancestors.''
	:Of course, he could be lying. --[[User:Fyzixfighter\|Fyzixfighter]] 22:24, 12 December 2006 (CET)		:Of course, he could be lying. --[[User:Fyzixfighter\|Fyzixfighter]] 22:24, 12 December 2006 (CET)

			Ok, that seems to be clear. — [[User:Svdb\|SvdB]] 18:42, 13 December 2006 (CET)

Fyzixfighter: /* New species? */ found a quote on lifespan

2006-12-12T21:24:26Z

New species?: found a quote on lifespan

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:24, 12 December 2006
Line 93:		Line 93:
	:I would say that there is really only two possible arguments for the neo-Dnyarri being a new species: the term ''neo-Dnyarri'' itself, and the idea that its powers are more powerful than the original Dnyarri. Personally I don't think there's enough information to base such an assessment on either. I've only found the term ''neo-Dnyarri'' used by the Kzer-Za, and we don't know enough about the original Dnyarri to know how the powers compare. The neo-Dnyarri also describes himself as a Dnyarri and as the "last hope for [his] species," which implies that while he may be different, he's still the same species. I've been scanning the dialogs but can't seem to find any other commentary that would indicate anything further. I'll see if I can adjust the article appropriately.		:I would say that there is really only two possible arguments for the neo-Dnyarri being a new species: the term ''neo-Dnyarri'' itself, and the idea that its powers are more powerful than the original Dnyarri. Personally I don't think there's enough information to base such an assessment on either. I've only found the term ''neo-Dnyarri'' used by the Kzer-Za, and we don't know enough about the original Dnyarri to know how the powers compare. The neo-Dnyarri also describes himself as a Dnyarri and as the "last hope for [his] species," which implies that while he may be different, he's still the same species. I've been scanning the dialogs but can't seem to find any other commentary that would indicate anything further. I'll see if I can adjust the article appropriately.
	:As to the lifespan question - I think there is more reason to assume that he is not one of the original enslaving Dnyarri. The Arilou, albeit expressing speculation, imply that the it was the Talking Pet ancestors that had the powers. The Talking Pet himself refers to accessing his ancestors' genetic memories, one in particular in reference to the Sa-Matra. The Pet is usually very particular in saying that he is accessing genetic memories, not actual memories, when he remembers the good ol' days of the Dnyarri Slave Empire. He also says, "Instead of just killing us, the Ur-Quan modified our genetic code sequence so that our children were born non-sentient, dumb animals" which may imply that they've continued to breed Talking Pets as old ones die. I'd say that it's more likely that he wasn't one of the Dnyarri that enslaved the Ur-Quan, but was born non-sentient in the intervening 20K years. --[[User:Fyzixfighter\|Fyzixfighter]] 22:04, 12 December 2006 (CET)		:As to the lifespan question - I think there is more reason to assume that he is not one of the original enslaving Dnyarri. The Arilou, albeit expressing speculation, imply that the it was the Talking Pet ancestors that had the powers. The Talking Pet himself refers to accessing his ancestors' genetic memories, one in particular in reference to the Sa-Matra. The Pet is usually very particular in saying that he is accessing genetic memories, not actual memories, when he remembers the good ol' days of the Dnyarri Slave Empire. He also says, "Instead of just killing us, the Ur-Quan modified our genetic code sequence so that our children were born non-sentient, dumb animals" which may imply that they've continued to breed Talking Pets as old ones die. I'd say that it's more likely that he wasn't one of the Dnyarri that enslaved the Ur-Quan, but was born non-sentient in the intervening 20K years. --[[User:Fyzixfighter\|Fyzixfighter]] 22:04, 12 December 2006 (CET)
			:'''Update re lifespan:''' Just found a comment by the neo-Dnyarri about the enslaving of the Ur-Quan:
			::''Besides, it wasn't me who did that, it was my ancient ancestors.''
			:Of course, he could be lying. --[[User:Fyzixfighter\|Fyzixfighter]] 22:24, 12 December 2006 (CET)

Fyzixfighter: /* New species? */ my thoughts

2006-12-12T21:04:13Z

New species?: my thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:04, 12 December 2006
Line 90:		Line 90:

	Is there any reason to claim that the neo-Dnyarri is a new species? Not knowing anything about the lifespan of a Dnyarri, this individual itself may have been one of the Dnyarri that enslaved the Ur-Quan. But at the least, is there any reason to assume that this Dnyarri is so genetically different from the original ones to constitute a different species? — [[User:Svdb\|SvdB]] 22:23, 11 December 2006 (CET)		Is there any reason to claim that the neo-Dnyarri is a new species? Not knowing anything about the lifespan of a Dnyarri, this individual itself may have been one of the Dnyarri that enslaved the Ur-Quan. But at the least, is there any reason to assume that this Dnyarri is so genetically different from the original ones to constitute a different species? — [[User:Svdb\|SvdB]] 22:23, 11 December 2006 (CET)

			:I would say that there is really only two possible arguments for the neo-Dnyarri being a new species: the term ''neo-Dnyarri'' itself, and the idea that its powers are more powerful than the original Dnyarri. Personally I don't think there's enough information to base such an assessment on either. I've only found the term ''neo-Dnyarri'' used by the Kzer-Za, and we don't know enough about the original Dnyarri to know how the powers compare. The neo-Dnyarri also describes himself as a Dnyarri and as the "last hope for [his] species," which implies that while he may be different, he's still the same species. I've been scanning the dialogs but can't seem to find any other commentary that would indicate anything further. I'll see if I can adjust the article appropriately.
			:As to the lifespan question - I think there is more reason to assume that he is not one of the original enslaving Dnyarri. The Arilou, albeit expressing speculation, imply that the it was the Talking Pet ancestors that had the powers. The Talking Pet himself refers to accessing his ancestors' genetic memories, one in particular in reference to the Sa-Matra. The Pet is usually very particular in saying that he is accessing genetic memories, not actual memories, when he remembers the good ol' days of the Dnyarri Slave Empire. He also says, "Instead of just killing us, the Ur-Quan modified our genetic code sequence so that our children were born non-sentient, dumb animals" which may imply that they've continued to breed Talking Pets as old ones die. I'd say that it's more likely that he wasn't one of the Dnyarri that enslaved the Ur-Quan, but was born non-sentient in the intervening 20K years. --[[User:Fyzixfighter\|Fyzixfighter]] 22:04, 12 December 2006 (CET)

Svdb: New species?

2006-12-11T21:23:35Z

New species?

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:23, 11 December 2006
Line 86:		Line 86:
	::The major problem is that the interaction with the neo-Dnyarri, particularly the final interaction where the neo-Dnyarri sputters some nonsense about being left aboard the ship, is pretty poorly written and makes it unclear what the heck is going on with the Captain and the Talking Pet when it should be clear -- that scene's obviously trying to say something in a non-mysterious way, it's just very stiltedly written.		::The major problem is that the interaction with the neo-Dnyarri, particularly the final interaction where the neo-Dnyarri sputters some nonsense about being left aboard the ship, is pretty poorly written and makes it unclear what the heck is going on with the Captain and the Talking Pet when it should be clear -- that scene's obviously trying to say something in a non-mysterious way, it's just very stiltedly written.
	::If anybody really thinks that Zelnick didn't mean to kill the Talking Pet and really did leave him on board the ship by accident, feel free to change the article. The same applies to anyone who really thinks that there's nothing odd about Zelnick's conversation with the neo-Dnyarri before the battle ("I'm scared, Dnyarri. What if it doesn't work?") and nothing weird about the way the neo-Dnyarri reacts ("And... just in case you're wondering, I'm not coming aboard the escape pod... I'm staying right here... beeecause YOU'VE LOCKED ME IN! HELP! HELP!"). That something happened to confuse both Zelnick and the Talking Pet during the battle, and that the Talking Pet's thoughts were somehow confused and prevented it from getting onto the escape pod, is not just "speculation" -- it is the explanation clearly supported by the events in the game, even if it is not spelled out.		::If anybody really thinks that Zelnick didn't mean to kill the Talking Pet and really did leave him on board the ship by accident, feel free to change the article. The same applies to anyone who really thinks that there's nothing odd about Zelnick's conversation with the neo-Dnyarri before the battle ("I'm scared, Dnyarri. What if it doesn't work?") and nothing weird about the way the neo-Dnyarri reacts ("And... just in case you're wondering, I'm not coming aboard the escape pod... I'm staying right here... beeecause YOU'VE LOCKED ME IN! HELP! HELP!"). That something happened to confuse both Zelnick and the Talking Pet during the battle, and that the Talking Pet's thoughts were somehow confused and prevented it from getting onto the escape pod, is not just "speculation" -- it is the explanation clearly supported by the events in the game, even if it is not spelled out.

			== New species? ==

			Is there any reason to claim that the neo-Dnyarri is a new species? Not knowing anything about the lifespan of a Dnyarri, this individual itself may have been one of the Dnyarri that enslaved the Ur-Quan. But at the least, is there any reason to assume that this Dnyarri is so genetically different from the original ones to constitute a different species? — [[User:Svdb\|SvdB]] 22:23, 11 December 2006 (CET)

Fyzixfighter: Reverted edit of 66.202.98.237, changed back to last version by Svdb

2006-07-02T14:50:44Z

Reverted edit of 66.202.98.237, changed back to last version by Svdb

Show changes

66.202.98.237 at 11:26, 2 July 2006

2006-07-02T11:26:05Z

Show changes

Svdb: put my name there

2004-10-17T07:57:02Z

put my name there

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:57, 17 October 2004
Line 73:		Line 73:
	::::"The Captain" is a proper noun and by its capitalness implies something like "the most important captain", or "the captain that we always talk about when we say The Captain". Just like "God" vs "god" or "President" (of the United States) vs. "president" (of a company). Or "Next time on Star Trek: The Captain discovers a new..." But for professionalism and clarity, I support using the "default" or "most obvious" names: Captain Zelnick, Flagship Vindicator, New Alliance of Free Stars, etc. If the Ultranomic is supposed to be written as some sort of encyclopedia from after the Second War, they would probably call him "Captain Zelnick". --[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]]		::::"The Captain" is a proper noun and by its capitalness implies something like "the most important captain", or "the captain that we always talk about when we say The Captain". Just like "God" vs "god" or "President" (of the United States) vs. "president" (of a company). Or "Next time on Star Trek: The Captain discovers a new..." But for professionalism and clarity, I support using the "default" or "most obvious" names: Captain Zelnick, Flagship Vindicator, New Alliance of Free Stars, etc. If the Ultranomic is supposed to be written as some sort of encyclopedia from after the Second War, they would probably call him "Captain Zelnick". --[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]]
	:::::Then the crew of the Vindicator would call Zelnick "The Captain". It's really weird for tons and tons of people who don't serve on the Vindicator to call him "The Captain", though, particularly since "Captain" is a rather localized title that individual sailors are obligated to reserve for their own captains. I suppose it's possible that he's such a famous captain after the Second War that "the Captain" just becomes his moniker, but that's not supported by any evidence in the game -- everyone calls you "Captain" because that's your title to be used to your face (as it would be for any captain of any ship), but that doesn't mean that future civilizations all call Zelnick "The Captain". That's silly, and it's a usage that only crops up in fandom, not in the game.		:::::Then the crew of the Vindicator would call Zelnick "The Captain". It's really weird for tons and tons of people who don't serve on the Vindicator to call him "The Captain", though, particularly since "Captain" is a rather localized title that individual sailors are obligated to reserve for their own captains. I suppose it's possible that he's such a famous captain after the Second War that "the Captain" just becomes his moniker, but that's not supported by any evidence in the game -- everyone calls you "Captain" because that's your title to be used to your face (as it would be for any captain of any ship), but that doesn't mean that future civilizations all call Zelnick "The Captain". That's silly, and it's a usage that only crops up in fandom, not in the game.
	::::::People inside the game know his name, we don't. '''That''' is why we should call him "The Captain", even though his name may be known by everyone in the Star Control universe. Consider "The grave of the unknown soldier", you could say, "let's put 'here lies John Doe' on it", because that's the default name. Or take a painting by an unknown painter. Instead of saying "the painter used very bright colours", we could say "John Doe used very bright colours". The only reason we capitalize "The Captain" is because it isn't just any captain.		::::::People inside the game know his name, we don't. '''That''' is why we should call him "The Captain", even though his name may be known by everyone in the Star Control universe. Consider "The grave of the unknown soldier", you could say, "let's put 'here lies John Doe' on it", because that's the default name. Or take a painting by an unknown painter. Instead of saying "the painter used very bright colours", we could say "John Doe used very bright colours". The only reason we capitalize "The Captain" is because it isn't just any captain. -- [[User:Svdb\|SvdB]] 09:57, 17 Oct 2004 (CEST)

Svdb: reply on The Captain's name

2004-10-17T07:56:24Z

reply on The Captain's name

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:56, 17 October 2004
Line 72:		Line 72:
	:::Um, no, it isn't. Why on Earth would you call him "The Captain" rather than "Captain Zelnick" in real life, if he had a name and you knew it? Especially since he's not just "The Captain"; there are many other captains among the New Alliance and the Hierarchy all through the game, all of whom are equally deserving of the rank and title. You can call him the "Captain of the Vindicator", or, if you want, the "Captain of the New Alliance of Free Stars' flagship", or "the Captain of the force that opposed the Ur-Quan in the Second War's flagship"; only the last one really accounts for all the player's choices. See how clunky and un-encyclopedia-like that becomes?		:::Um, no, it isn't. Why on Earth would you call him "The Captain" rather than "Captain Zelnick" in real life, if he had a name and you knew it? Especially since he's not just "The Captain"; there are many other captains among the New Alliance and the Hierarchy all through the game, all of whom are equally deserving of the rank and title. You can call him the "Captain of the Vindicator", or, if you want, the "Captain of the New Alliance of Free Stars' flagship", or "the Captain of the force that opposed the Ur-Quan in the Second War's flagship"; only the last one really accounts for all the player's choices. See how clunky and un-encyclopedia-like that becomes?
	::::"The Captain" is a proper noun and by its capitalness implies something like "the most important captain", or "the captain that we always talk about when we say The Captain". Just like "God" vs "god" or "President" (of the United States) vs. "president" (of a company). Or "Next time on Star Trek: The Captain discovers a new..." But for professionalism and clarity, I support using the "default" or "most obvious" names: Captain Zelnick, Flagship Vindicator, New Alliance of Free Stars, etc. If the Ultranomic is supposed to be written as some sort of encyclopedia from after the Second War, they would probably call him "Captain Zelnick". --[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]]		::::"The Captain" is a proper noun and by its capitalness implies something like "the most important captain", or "the captain that we always talk about when we say The Captain". Just like "God" vs "god" or "President" (of the United States) vs. "president" (of a company). Or "Next time on Star Trek: The Captain discovers a new..." But for professionalism and clarity, I support using the "default" or "most obvious" names: Captain Zelnick, Flagship Vindicator, New Alliance of Free Stars, etc. If the Ultranomic is supposed to be written as some sort of encyclopedia from after the Second War, they would probably call him "Captain Zelnick". --[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]]
	::::::Then the crew of the Vindicator would call Zelnick "The Captain". It's really weird for tons and tons of people who don't serve on the Vindicator to call him "The Captain", though, particularly since "Captain" is a rather localized title that individual sailors are obligated to reserve for their own captains. I suppose it's possible that he's such a famous captain after the Second War that "the Captain" just becomes his moniker, but that's not supported by any evidence in the game -- everyone calls you "Captain" because that's your title to be used to your face (as it would be for any captain of any ship), but that doesn't mean that future civilizations all call Zelnick "The Captain". That's silly, and it's a usage that only crops up in fandom, not in the game.		:::::Then the crew of the Vindicator would call Zelnick "The Captain". It's really weird for tons and tons of people who don't serve on the Vindicator to call him "The Captain", though, particularly since "Captain" is a rather localized title that individual sailors are obligated to reserve for their own captains. I suppose it's possible that he's such a famous captain after the Second War that "the Captain" just becomes his moniker, but that's not supported by any evidence in the game -- everyone calls you "Captain" because that's your title to be used to your face (as it would be for any captain of any ship), but that doesn't mean that future civilizations all call Zelnick "The Captain". That's silly, and it's a usage that only crops up in fandom, not in the game.
			::::::People inside the game know his name, we don't. '''That''' is why we should call him "The Captain", even though his name may be known by everyone in the Star Control universe. Consider "The grave of the unknown soldier", you could say, "let's put 'here lies John Doe' on it", because that's the default name. Or take a painting by an unknown painter. Instead of saying "the painter used very bright colours", we could say "John Doe used very bright colours". The only reason we capitalize "The Captain" is because it isn't just any captain.


	== Speculation vs. Facts ==		== Speculation vs. Facts ==

4.11.199.218 at 07:33, 17 October 2004

2004-10-17T07:33:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:33, 17 October 2004
Line 72:		Line 72:
	:::Um, no, it isn't. Why on Earth would you call him "The Captain" rather than "Captain Zelnick" in real life, if he had a name and you knew it? Especially since he's not just "The Captain"; there are many other captains among the New Alliance and the Hierarchy all through the game, all of whom are equally deserving of the rank and title. You can call him the "Captain of the Vindicator", or, if you want, the "Captain of the New Alliance of Free Stars' flagship", or "the Captain of the force that opposed the Ur-Quan in the Second War's flagship"; only the last one really accounts for all the player's choices. See how clunky and un-encyclopedia-like that becomes?		:::Um, no, it isn't. Why on Earth would you call him "The Captain" rather than "Captain Zelnick" in real life, if he had a name and you knew it? Especially since he's not just "The Captain"; there are many other captains among the New Alliance and the Hierarchy all through the game, all of whom are equally deserving of the rank and title. You can call him the "Captain of the Vindicator", or, if you want, the "Captain of the New Alliance of Free Stars' flagship", or "the Captain of the force that opposed the Ur-Quan in the Second War's flagship"; only the last one really accounts for all the player's choices. See how clunky and un-encyclopedia-like that becomes?
	::::"The Captain" is a proper noun and by its capitalness implies something like "the most important captain", or "the captain that we always talk about when we say The Captain". Just like "God" vs "god" or "President" (of the United States) vs. "president" (of a company). Or "Next time on Star Trek: The Captain discovers a new..." But for professionalism and clarity, I support using the "default" or "most obvious" names: Captain Zelnick, Flagship Vindicator, New Alliance of Free Stars, etc. If the Ultranomic is supposed to be written as some sort of encyclopedia from after the Second War, they would probably call him "Captain Zelnick". --[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]]		::::"The Captain" is a proper noun and by its capitalness implies something like "the most important captain", or "the captain that we always talk about when we say The Captain". Just like "God" vs "god" or "President" (of the United States) vs. "president" (of a company). Or "Next time on Star Trek: The Captain discovers a new..." But for professionalism and clarity, I support using the "default" or "most obvious" names: Captain Zelnick, Flagship Vindicator, New Alliance of Free Stars, etc. If the Ultranomic is supposed to be written as some sort of encyclopedia from after the Second War, they would probably call him "Captain Zelnick". --[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]]
			::::::Then the crew of the Vindicator would call Zelnick "The Captain". It's really weird for tons and tons of people who don't serve on the Vindicator to call him "The Captain", though, particularly since "Captain" is a rather localized title that individual sailors are obligated to reserve for their own captains. I suppose it's possible that he's such a famous captain after the Second War that "the Captain" just becomes his moniker, but that's not supported by any evidence in the game -- everyone calls you "Captain" because that's your title to be used to your face (as it would be for any captain of any ship), but that doesn't mean that future civilizations all call Zelnick "The Captain". That's silly, and it's a usage that only crops up in fandom, not in the game.

	== Speculation vs. Facts ==		== Speculation vs. Facts ==
Line 82:		Line 83:

	::The major problem is that the interaction with the neo-Dnyarri, particularly the final interaction where the neo-Dnyarri sputters some nonsense about being left aboard the ship, is pretty poorly written and makes it unclear what the heck is going on with the Captain and the Talking Pet when it should be clear -- that scene's obviously trying to say something in a non-mysterious way, it's just very stiltedly written.		::The major problem is that the interaction with the neo-Dnyarri, particularly the final interaction where the neo-Dnyarri sputters some nonsense about being left aboard the ship, is pretty poorly written and makes it unclear what the heck is going on with the Captain and the Talking Pet when it should be clear -- that scene's obviously trying to say something in a non-mysterious way, it's just very stiltedly written.
			::If anybody really thinks that Zelnick didn't mean to kill the Talking Pet and really did leave him on board the ship by accident, feel free to change the article. The same applies to anyone who really thinks that there's nothing odd about Zelnick's conversation with the neo-Dnyarri before the battle ("I'm scared, Dnyarri. What if it doesn't work?") and nothing weird about the way the neo-Dnyarri reacts ("And... just in case you're wondering, I'm not coming aboard the escape pod... I'm staying right here... beeecause YOU'VE LOCKED ME IN! HELP! HELP!"). That something happened to confuse both Zelnick and the Talking Pet during the battle, and that the Talking Pet's thoughts were somehow confused and prevented it from getting onto the escape pod, is not just "speculation" -- it is the explanation clearly supported by the events in the game, even if it is not spelled out.

4.11.199.218: /* Speculation vs. Facts */

2004-10-16T05:27:33Z

Speculation vs. Facts

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:27, 16 October 2004
Line 80:		Line 80:

	--[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]] 04:20, 16 Oct 2004 (CEST)		--[[User:Jacius\|Jacius]] 04:20, 16 Oct 2004 (CEST)

			::The major problem is that the interaction with the neo-Dnyarri, particularly the final interaction where the neo-Dnyarri sputters some nonsense about being left aboard the ship, is pretty poorly written and makes it unclear what the heck is going on with the Captain and the Talking Pet when it should be clear -- that scene's obviously trying to say something in a non-mysterious way, it's just very stiltedly written.