Talk:Utwig - Revision history

24.117.122.78 at 21:08, 9 July 2007

2007-07-09T21:08:44Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:08, 9 July 2007
Line 96:		Line 96:
	:::::::Also, you've ignored my other argument: in "annihilates anything within 500 km", "anything" doesn't mean really anything; if it were anything, after all, the Bomb wouldn't have needed to be improved to be able to destroy the Sa-Matra.		:::::::Also, you've ignored my other argument: in "annihilates anything within 500 km", "anything" doesn't mean really anything; if it were anything, after all, the Bomb wouldn't have needed to be improved to be able to destroy the Sa-Matra.
	:::::::So, what I'm saying is that, while it is possible that the Bomb can truly "reduce moon-sized objects to particulate dust clouds", it is far from certain, so we should include the possibility that it doesn't. Plus the Utwig exaggerate in the case of the Sa-Matra too (I know, they haven't seen it in action, so they're anyway not a reliable source even without exaggeration). [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 17:52, 6 July 2007 (CEST)		:::::::So, what I'm saying is that, while it is possible that the Bomb can truly "reduce moon-sized objects to particulate dust clouds", it is far from certain, so we should include the possibility that it doesn't. Plus the Utwig exaggerate in the case of the Sa-Matra too (I know, they haven't seen it in action, so they're anyway not a reliable source even without exaggeration). [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 17:52, 6 July 2007 (CEST)
			::::::::This argument is stupid. It's already 9 sections deep. Forget I ever cared. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 23:08, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

Valaggar: /* Utwig Importance */ reply

2007-07-06T15:52:38Z

Utwig Importance: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:52, 6 July 2007
Line 93:		Line 93:
	::::::There's no such thing as a "normal moon" when it comes to size. A moon is a natural satellite, a body in orbit of a planet. Moons vary greatly in size and composition, and unless you can prove what the Utwig consider to be "moon-sized" all you are doing is conjecturing. So, considering the fact that most natural satellites (in our planetary system) have a mean diameter of less than 1000 km, anything above this is not really "normal" at all.		::::::There's no such thing as a "normal moon" when it comes to size. A moon is a natural satellite, a body in orbit of a planet. Moons vary greatly in size and composition, and unless you can prove what the Utwig consider to be "moon-sized" all you are doing is conjecturing. So, considering the fact that most natural satellites (in our planetary system) have a mean diameter of less than 1000 km, anything above this is not really "normal" at all.
	::::::And about asteroid-sized, well you have the same situation. Ceres, a body of 900 km diameter, was reclassified as a dwarf planet, and was the only (discovered) asteroid to receive this reclassification. This means Ceres is abnormally large for an asteroid. Asteroids tend to be more like the size of houses to very small cities. If you placed the Utwig bomb in the center of Ceres, the entire body would be vaporized, so the Utwig bomb is definitely capable of reducing a moon-sized object to particulate dust clouds. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 16:10, 6 July 2007 (CEST)		::::::And about asteroid-sized, well you have the same situation. Ceres, a body of 900 km diameter, was reclassified as a dwarf planet, and was the only (discovered) asteroid to receive this reclassification. This means Ceres is abnormally large for an asteroid. Asteroids tend to be more like the size of houses to very small cities. If you placed the Utwig bomb in the center of Ceres, the entire body would be vaporized, so the Utwig bomb is definitely capable of reducing a moon-sized object to particulate dust clouds. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 16:10, 6 July 2007 (CEST)
			:::::::The vast majority of moons in Utwig space have a radius of at least 1600 km. And there ''is'' such a thing as a "normal moon" - a moon with a medium size.
			:::::::Also, you've ignored my other argument: in "annihilates anything within 500 km", "anything" doesn't mean really anything; if it were anything, after all, the Bomb wouldn't have needed to be improved to be able to destroy the Sa-Matra.
			:::::::So, what I'm saying is that, while it is possible that the Bomb can truly "reduce moon-sized objects to particulate dust clouds", it is far from certain, so we should include the possibility that it doesn't. Plus the Utwig exaggerate in the case of the Sa-Matra too (I know, they haven't seen it in action, so they're anyway not a reliable source even without exaggeration). [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 17:52, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

24.117.122.78 at 14:10, 6 July 2007

2007-07-06T14:10:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:10, 6 July 2007
Line 91:		Line 91:
	:::::The idea is that in "annihilates anything within 500 km", "anything" doesn't mean really anything; if it were anything, after all, the Bomb wouldn't have needed to be improved to be able to destroy the Sa-Matra.		:::::The idea is that in "annihilates anything within 500 km", "anything" doesn't mean really anything; if it were anything, after all, the Bomb wouldn't have needed to be improved to be able to destroy the Sa-Matra.
	:::::Moons are definitely harder to destroy than ships, and not only due to their size but also to their mass. Plus, I'm not sure if the shockwave would be enough to vaporize the rest of Io or even Europa (the explosion would gulp a big chunk with a radius of 500 km, but the rest (of Europa's diameter of about 3000 km) would need a lot of energy to be destroyed. Small moons don't go into the equation - "moon-sized" means "having the size of a normal moon", not the size of an asteroid-sized moon. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:54, 6 July 2007 (CEST)		:::::Moons are definitely harder to destroy than ships, and not only due to their size but also to their mass. Plus, I'm not sure if the shockwave would be enough to vaporize the rest of Io or even Europa (the explosion would gulp a big chunk with a radius of 500 km, but the rest (of Europa's diameter of about 3000 km) would need a lot of energy to be destroyed. Small moons don't go into the equation - "moon-sized" means "having the size of a normal moon", not the size of an asteroid-sized moon. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:54, 6 July 2007 (CEST)
			::::::There's no such thing as a "normal moon" when it comes to size. A moon is a natural satellite, a body in orbit of a planet. Moons vary greatly in size and composition, and unless you can prove what the Utwig consider to be "moon-sized" all you are doing is conjecturing. So, considering the fact that most natural satellites (in our planetary system) have a mean diameter of less than 1000 km, anything above this is not really "normal" at all.
			::::::And about asteroid-sized, well you have the same situation. Ceres, a body of 900 km diameter, was reclassified as a dwarf planet, and was the only (discovered) asteroid to receive this reclassification. This means Ceres is abnormally large for an asteroid. Asteroids tend to be more like the size of houses to very small cities. If you placed the Utwig bomb in the center of Ceres, the entire body would be vaporized, so the Utwig bomb is definitely capable of reducing a moon-sized object to particulate dust clouds. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 16:10, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

Valaggar: /* Utwig Importance */ reply

2007-07-06T07:54:20Z

Utwig Importance: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:54, 6 July 2007
Line 89:		Line 89:
	::::Let's say you detonated the Utwig bomb on Io, a moon with an average diameter of close to 3600 km. Detonate the bomb on the surface and you've put a 500km deep hemispherical crater on Io, almost a third of the way to its center. It doesn't just stop there, however. The shockwave from that explosion rips through Io, reducing the moon to rubble. Blast a huge hole in Io first then drop the bomb down it... well that just makes it so much worse.		::::Let's say you detonated the Utwig bomb on Io, a moon with an average diameter of close to 3600 km. Detonate the bomb on the surface and you've put a 500km deep hemispherical crater on Io, almost a third of the way to its center. It doesn't just stop there, however. The shockwave from that explosion rips through Io, reducing the moon to rubble. Blast a huge hole in Io first then drop the bomb down it... well that just makes it so much worse.
	::::How about Uranus' moon Europa? Half the diameter of Io, but definitely moon-sized. And there are even smaller moons than Europa but still magnitudes larger than Phobos and Deimos. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 00:53, 6 July 2007 (CEST)		::::How about Uranus' moon Europa? Half the diameter of Io, but definitely moon-sized. And there are even smaller moons than Europa but still magnitudes larger than Phobos and Deimos. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 00:53, 6 July 2007 (CEST)
			:::::The idea is that in "annihilates anything within 500 km", "anything" doesn't mean really anything; if it were anything, after all, the Bomb wouldn't have needed to be improved to be able to destroy the Sa-Matra.
			:::::Moons are definitely harder to destroy than ships, and not only due to their size but also to their mass. Plus, I'm not sure if the shockwave would be enough to vaporize the rest of Io or even Europa (the explosion would gulp a big chunk with a radius of 500 km, but the rest (of Europa's diameter of about 3000 km) would need a lot of energy to be destroyed. Small moons don't go into the equation - "moon-sized" means "having the size of a normal moon", not the size of an asteroid-sized moon. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:54, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

24.117.122.78 at 22:53, 5 July 2007

2007-07-05T22:53:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:53, 5 July 2007
Line 86:		Line 86:
	:::(re powerful bomb) I've also included the Sa-Matra now. Also, about the Bomb - the Chmmr are in the best position to speak about the Bomb, and they say that "if you had activated it, the weapon would have annihilated your ship and everything else within five hundred kilometers". To reduce a moon-sized object to particulate dust-clouds (even a Deimos-sized moon — ah, and keep in mind that Deimos is not moon-sized, nor is Phobos) requires a lot of energy — "everything else", here, probably refers to ships and similar objects, since even asteroids are much more difficult to destroy even if they are small.		:::(re powerful bomb) I've also included the Sa-Matra now. Also, about the Bomb - the Chmmr are in the best position to speak about the Bomb, and they say that "if you had activated it, the weapon would have annihilated your ship and everything else within five hundred kilometers". To reduce a moon-sized object to particulate dust-clouds (even a Deimos-sized moon — ah, and keep in mind that Deimos is not moon-sized, nor is Phobos) requires a lot of energy — "everything else", here, probably refers to ships and similar objects, since even asteroids are much more difficult to destroy even if they are small.
	:::Anyway, I've recently worded it in another way, with "seem to". This should do the trick. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 20:24, 5 July 2007 (CEST)		:::Anyway, I've recently worded it in another way, with "seem to". This should do the trick. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 20:24, 5 July 2007 (CEST)
			::::So, according to the Chmmr, the unmodified Utwig bomb has an annihilation sphere of 500 km radius, or 1000 km diameter. Let's consider the nature of an explosion. Even assuming that this bomb only has an annihilation zone and there are no further effects from the bomb itself beyond this barrier, or that 1000km radius is not considered moon-sized, you have to take into mind the further devastating effects this bomb would have on a hunk of rock in space. In space, an explosion causes a fireball and a hail of debris that escaped vaporization. On a large solid hunk of rock, however, there is a shockwave that rips through the solid material of the rock.
			::::Let's say you detonated the Utwig bomb on Io, a moon with an average diameter of close to 3600 km. Detonate the bomb on the surface and you've put a 500km deep hemispherical crater on Io, almost a third of the way to its center. It doesn't just stop there, however. The shockwave from that explosion rips through Io, reducing the moon to rubble. Blast a huge hole in Io first then drop the bomb down it... well that just makes it so much worse.
			::::How about Uranus' moon Europa? Half the diameter of Io, but definitely moon-sized. And there are even smaller moons than Europa but still magnitudes larger than Phobos and Deimos. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 00:53, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

Valaggar: /* Utwig Importance */ added to reply

2007-07-05T18:29:32Z

Utwig Importance: added to reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:29, 5 July 2007
Line 84:		Line 84:
	::Also, stating that the Utwig are "emo" and that "emo people always say..." is an awful generalization and is highly circumstantial. I find the Utwig to be rather big-headed about their possession of the Ultron and their insight into things through it, but they've shown they can back up their claims. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 18:12, 5 July 2007 (CEST)		::Also, stating that the Utwig are "emo" and that "emo people always say..." is an awful generalization and is highly circumstantial. I find the Utwig to be rather big-headed about their possession of the Ultron and their insight into things through it, but they've shown they can back up their claims. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 18:12, 5 July 2007 (CEST)
	:::(re emo) I was in a bad mood over the Utwig voice when I stated that they're emo; in anger, I said something which in fact I don't believe at all.		:::(re emo) I was in a bad mood over the Utwig voice when I stated that they're emo; in anger, I said something which in fact I don't believe at all.
	:::(re powerful bomb) I've also included the Sa-Matra now. Also, about the Bomb - the Chmmr are in the best position to speak about the Bomb, and they say that "if you had activated it, the weapon would have annihilated your ship and everything else within five hundred kilometers". To reduce a moon-sized object to particulate dust-clouds (even a Deimos-sized moon) requires a lot of energy — "everything else", here, probably refers to ships and similar objects, since even asteroids are much more difficult to destroy even if they are small.		:::(re powerful bomb) I've also included the Sa-Matra now. Also, about the Bomb - the Chmmr are in the best position to speak about the Bomb, and they say that "if you had activated it, the weapon would have annihilated your ship and everything else within five hundred kilometers". To reduce a moon-sized object to particulate dust-clouds (even a Deimos-sized moon — ah, and keep in mind that Deimos is not moon-sized, nor is Phobos) requires a lot of energy — "everything else", here, probably refers to ships and similar objects, since even asteroids are much more difficult to destroy even if they are small.
	:::Anyway, I've recently worded it in another way, with "seem to". This should do the trick. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 20:24, 5 July 2007 (CEST)		:::Anyway, I've recently worded it in another way, with "seem to". This should do the trick. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 20:24, 5 July 2007 (CEST)

Valaggar: /* Utwig Importance */ reply

2007-07-05T18:24:55Z

Utwig Importance: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:24, 5 July 2007
Line 83:		Line 83:
	::You're not providing anything to back up your claims. All sources on the bomb state that the bomb is significantly powerful, and the Starbase Commander advises you to perform any experiments with the bomb several AU away from the station. That's astronomical units, the distance from the Earth to the center of the sun. This is an extremely powerful bomb and I find it very likely that the Utwig were not exaggerating its destructive potential at all. The only thing that possibly stood a chance against it was a Precursor battle platform, a warship. The Utwig bomb very well might have destroyed it on its own, but the Chmmr didn't want to take any chances and grossly amplified the power of the bomb..		::You're not providing anything to back up your claims. All sources on the bomb state that the bomb is significantly powerful, and the Starbase Commander advises you to perform any experiments with the bomb several AU away from the station. That's astronomical units, the distance from the Earth to the center of the sun. This is an extremely powerful bomb and I find it very likely that the Utwig were not exaggerating its destructive potential at all. The only thing that possibly stood a chance against it was a Precursor battle platform, a warship. The Utwig bomb very well might have destroyed it on its own, but the Chmmr didn't want to take any chances and grossly amplified the power of the bomb..
	::Also, stating that the Utwig are "emo" and that "emo people always say..." is an awful generalization and is highly circumstantial. I find the Utwig to be rather big-headed about their possession of the Ultron and their insight into things through it, but they've shown they can back up their claims. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 18:12, 5 July 2007 (CEST)		::Also, stating that the Utwig are "emo" and that "emo people always say..." is an awful generalization and is highly circumstantial. I find the Utwig to be rather big-headed about their possession of the Ultron and their insight into things through it, but they've shown they can back up their claims. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 18:12, 5 July 2007 (CEST)
			:::(re emo) I was in a bad mood over the Utwig voice when I stated that they're emo; in anger, I said something which in fact I don't believe at all.
			:::(re powerful bomb) I've also included the Sa-Matra now. Also, about the Bomb - the Chmmr are in the best position to speak about the Bomb, and they say that "if you had activated it, the weapon would have annihilated your ship and everything else within five hundred kilometers". To reduce a moon-sized object to particulate dust-clouds (even a Deimos-sized moon) requires a lot of energy — "everything else", here, probably refers to ships and similar objects, since even asteroids are much more difficult to destroy even if they are small.
			:::Anyway, I've recently worded it in another way, with "seem to". This should do the trick. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 20:24, 5 July 2007 (CEST)

24.117.122.78 at 16:12, 5 July 2007

2007-07-05T16:12:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:12, 5 July 2007
Line 81:		Line 81:
	:1. The Utwig are emo, and emo people always say that they are very important, but that nobody pays them any attention.		:1. The Utwig are emo, and emo people always say that they are very important, but that nobody pays them any attention.
	:2. I've edited now to make it clearer - I was talking about the Bomb too. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:31, 5 July 2007 (CEST)		:2. I've edited now to make it clearer - I was talking about the Bomb too. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:31, 5 July 2007 (CEST)
			::You're not providing anything to back up your claims. All sources on the bomb state that the bomb is significantly powerful, and the Starbase Commander advises you to perform any experiments with the bomb several AU away from the station. That's astronomical units, the distance from the Earth to the center of the sun. This is an extremely powerful bomb and I find it very likely that the Utwig were not exaggerating its destructive potential at all. The only thing that possibly stood a chance against it was a Precursor battle platform, a warship. The Utwig bomb very well might have destroyed it on its own, but the Chmmr didn't want to take any chances and grossly amplified the power of the bomb..
			::Also, stating that the Utwig are "emo" and that "emo people always say..." is an awful generalization and is highly circumstantial. I find the Utwig to be rather big-headed about their possession of the Ultron and their insight into things through it, but they've shown they can back up their claims. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 18:12, 5 July 2007 (CEST)

Valaggar: /* Utwig Importance */ completed last reply

2007-07-05T07:51:46Z

Utwig Importance: completed last reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:51, 5 July 2007
Line 79:		Line 79:

	Just some ideas. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 19:47, 4 July 2007 (CEST)		Just some ideas. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 19:47, 4 July 2007 (CEST)
	:1. The Utwig are emo, and emo people always say that they are very important, but nobody pays them any attention.		:1. The Utwig are emo, and emo people always say that they are very important, but that nobody pays them any attention.
	:2. I've edited now to make it clearer - I was talking about the Bomb too. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:31, 5 July 2007 (CEST)		:2. I've edited now to make it clearer - I was talking about the Bomb too. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:31, 5 July 2007 (CEST)

Valaggar: /* Utwig Importance */ reply

2007-07-05T07:31:34Z

Utwig Importance: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:31, 5 July 2007
Line 79:		Line 79:

	Just some ideas. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 19:47, 4 July 2007 (CEST)		Just some ideas. --[[User:24.117.122.78\|24.117.122.78]] 19:47, 4 July 2007 (CEST)
			:1. The Utwig are emo, and emo people always say that they are very important, but nobody pays them any attention.
			:2. I've edited now to make it clearer - I was talking about the Bomb too. [[User:Valaggar\|Valaggar]] 09:31, 5 July 2007 (CEST)